Mass Orgy reported in news

[coolmanspooky]

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/4-men-plead-guilty-conspiring-rape-drugged-wives-after-exchanging-wife-sharing-fantasies-3034516

Sammyboy is mentioned...

[viper]

NOT Mass Orgy but Sex without consent = RAPE!

[Leeds]

There use to be a thread of sharing wife and there's video in it. Not sure what happen to that thread.

[Suharto]

Not sure what happen to that thread.

The clones invaded that thread and spread the info all over the sbf forums and other forums so the TS ask for the his thread to be removed

[
The court heard that the men met their respective accomplices online as early as 2010, on the forum Sammyboy
]

NOT Mass Orgy but Sex without consent = RAPE!

[
The judge noted that the attempted rape occurred in the victim's matrimonial home, with exploitation of a space that should have been safe for the family members.
]

Keyword attempted, it never happened he thinking about it on his chat since 2010, but never act on it, many people talk like that on sbf but only talk for fun sahaja

His lawyer confirmed his client is talk cock king only :D
[

He said it was not entirely true that his client and A2 planned the offence for about two years. Instead, they were "basically sharing wife-sharing fantasies".
]

[
The cases came to light after one of their wives found explicit photos in her husband's phone and lodged a police report.
]

Only satu report polisi, the rest did not report the police at all, infact they were jailed for other things, question why others did not report why? Not rape but they were part of a swing party?

[
The cases came to light after one of their wives found explicit photos in her husband's phone and lodged a police report.

The accused had earlier been convicted in July 2018 of nine charges, including the sale of obscene books, insulting modesty and possessing uncensored and obscene films. He was given 12 weeks' jail and fined S$20,000.
]

If having porn is possession can go to jail 3/4 of indon will be going to jail :D,
The fact that the prosecutor can only jail him on having porn, means zero evidence on rape, its a plot to close SBF by saying its a date rape forum

Bapak always ask singaporean mesti ask banyak questions do not just take your govt narrative on everything

Another one more
[
J installed a closed-circuit television camera in his bedroom to livestream images of his wife in the nude, as well as to showcase his sexual activities.
]

He share video of him having seks with his own wife, no rape happened, bapak thing the public prosecutor should be disbarred and kena hantam on
roadside for bringing this stupid case to court, in indon this type of case thrown out of court for sure, if your suami share your seks photo you go beat him with sapu at home, jangan kacau rumah kerajaan unless rape.

Read between the line my abang adik di sbf

[Keima]

There use to be a thread of sharing wife and there's video in it. Not sure what happen to that thread.

Did you read the CNA article? Letting another guy rape your unconscious wife while you video isn’t legal, neither is hosting these kinda videos.

Bro Sammy is NZ based, and operates by NZ law

[Suharto]

Letting another guy rape your unconscious wife while you video isn’t legal

Bapak saw the article and quoted as below

J
installed a closed-circuit television camera in his bedroom to livestream images of his wife in the nude, as well as to showcase his sexual activities.
]

He share video of him having seks with his own wife, no rape happened

I remember the video deleted, he pixelated the faces, but it was between him and his own wife he only share the video, no one raped his wife, CNA article confirmed as above

[Keima]

He share video of him having seks with his own wife, no rape happened


You seemed to have skipped reading the second sentence in the CNA article:

"One woman was raped multiple times over at least seven years by different men while she was unconscious. This was while she was blindfolded and drugged by her own husband."

[Suharto]

You seemed to have skipped reading the second sentence in the CNA article:

"One woman was raped multiple times over at least seven years by different men while she was unconscious. This was while she was blindfolded and drugged by her own husband."

Correct, but why she did not make a police report? Anyone can make an accusation of rape including the makcik selling kuih but why no police report?

Why the lawyer never cross examine and ask why she did not make a police report? Because she knew what was going on? And being raped for 7 years and never knew what was going on? So what changed her decision? This is called incomplete dossier in indonesia, where the case will be thrown out by the court.

The judge must ask this question even if they plead guilty, its due diligence of the court and if she cannot answer then judge must reject the guilty plea of the defendants and put a trial date for cross examination

Also if rape case, must have a rape kit, with semen evidence, hair sample, blood samples, without all these how can the judge accept in the guilty plea? This will never happen in indonesia

[Keima]

I dunno why a bee flew under your songkok.

There was ZERO Cross Examination. The accused pleaded guilty to two charges of 'conspiracy to rape', so what CNA reported was a Plea Hearing for sentence mitigation, not a trial.

'Conspiracy to rape' is obviously a lesser charge, and they may have been offered the charge during plea bargaining as the judge didn't want to drag the victims through a trial.

As it is, these fellas are going to spend a long time in jail, and get the rotan.

And yes, I did some court reporting, thirty years ago...

Correct, but why she did not make a police report? Anyone can make an accusation of rape including the makcik selling kuih but why no police report?

Why the lawyer never cross examine and ask why she did not make a police report? Because she knew what was going on? And being raped for 7 years and never knew what was going on? So what changed her decision? This is called incomplete dossier in indonesia, where the case will be thrown out by the court.

The judge must ask this question even if they plead guilty, its due diligence of the court and if she cannot answer then judge must reject the guilty plea of the defendants and put a trial date for cross examination

Also if rape case, must have a rape kit, with semen evidence, hair sample, blood samples, without all these how can the judge accept in the guilty plea? This will never happen in indonesia

[Xgenre]

Correct, but why she did not make a police report? Anyone can make an accusation of rape including the makcik selling kuih but why no police report?

Why the lawyer never cross examine and ask why she did not make a police report? Because she knew what was going on? And being raped for 7 years and never knew what was going on? So what changed her decision? This is called incomplete dossier in indonesia, where the case will be thrown out by the court.

4 men with wife-sharing fantasies plead guilty to conspiring to drug, rape wives
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/4-men-with-wife-sharing-fantasies-plead-guilty-to-conspiring-to-drug-rape-wives

Please read properly before commenting. The wives were drugged. And one of the wives did make a police report.

[Suharto]

I dunno why a bee flew under your songkok.


I checked already but got no bee :D

There was ZERO Cross Examination. The accused pleaded guilty to two charges of 'conspiracy to rape', so what CNA reported was a Plea Hearing for sentence mitigation, not a trial.

Correct its a plea sentence as they plead guilty, but the judge should have rejected the plea sentence as the question to why she did not make a police report for being raped for 7 years? She said she was drugged where is the rape kit? Where is the toxicology report?

Like that anyone can say you rape them without any evidence, the judge screwed up very badly, in indon, judge sure got impeached and removed from bench if he made such a call, but in indon is tiga hakim, so this can never happen

'Conspiracy to rape' is obviously a lesser charge

Glad now you coming around the corner, lack of evidence why? No rape kit? No toxicology report? Wintess? Semua tiada? So the public prosecutar main hantam in the dark to get them to agree to lesser charge, but the judge should have rejected the guilty plea entered

judge didn't want to drag the victims through a trial

So next time you go fl and the fl say you raped her instead just to blackmail you, then becomes your word against hers, so should the judge also say no need to drag the victim thought the process and just convict you? The answer is no because this is to weed out the false rape claims


And yes, I did some court reporting, thirty years ago...

Then you will know that in SG past have jury but was abolished why? Simple so that your kerajaan can convict you without due course whenever they like
because in jury court this case will be laughed out of court

[Suharto]

4 men with wife-sharing fantasies plead guilty to conspiring to drug, rape wives
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/4-men-with-wife-sharing-fantasies-plead-guilty-to-conspiring-to-drug-rape-wives

Please read properly before commenting. The wives were drugged. And one of the wives did make a police report.

Only one, but not the one that got raped. The one that got a police report made on him was only according to his lawyer thinking about it from 2010

You said the wives were drugged, where is the toxicology report to prove? Just say your husband drugged you but no toxicology report to prove? Judge must ask this question cannot just accept a plea, how does the judge know that the defendants are not be forced to admit to guilt or are unaware of their rights under SG constitution of law? Because you cannot just trust the police in SG, see below

[
2 police investigation officers allegedly forged dozens of statements in separate cases

Source: https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/2-police-investigation-officers-forged-dozens-statements-1929676
]

So the judge again did not do his due diligence, he should have struck down the guilty plea and set a trial and in the trial we will know the truth, the public prosecutor also should be demoted
to collecting 10 cents for toilet in SG as thats all he seems to be good for

[Leeds]

Did you read the CNA article? Letting another guy rape your unconscious wife while you video isn’t legal, neither is hosting these kinda videos.

Bro Sammy is NZ based, and operates by NZ law

It was raped when they were caught, prior to them been caught, it was still deem as fantasies been shared on SBF.

The clones invaded that thread and spread the info all over the sbf forums and other forums so the TS ask for the his thread to be removed

[
The court heard that the men met their respective accomplices online as early as 2010, on the forum Sammyboy
]
Read between the line my abang adik di sbf

I see.

[Hurricane88]

Really cannot understand how these things can happen? Allowing another guy to fark your wife when she was drugged?

Maybe I am conservative thinking and not liberal enough?

[JacqueMerlin]

Really cannot understand how these things can happen? Allowing another guy to fark your wife when she was drugged?

Maybe I am conservative thinking and not liberal enough?

No you aren't Conservative or not Liberal enough. Just not crazy enough.
I also don't understand.
Many of us are here because we don't have that special someone. And they have that someone yet they drug them to be raped by someone? I really cannot understand what is wrong with them.

[Rexsterz]

Looks like Sammyboy is going to be missing 7 guys for a looooong time.... The DPP is asking for 11 years to 23 years jail time, even after remission of holidays and good behavior , earliest they see freedom also 6-7 years ......

[HeyHo]

hope will have similar brothers here to share their wives sharing stories 😅

[johnny90]

Wife sharing is one thing, sometimes I also fantasise.

But doing it without consent aka rape is just so wrong.

[TheIdesOfMarch]

There's swinging, and then there's rape.

This is rape. Pure and simple. People should not sully swinging with this kind of heinous criminal case.

[afterburn]

Wife sharing is one thing, sometimes I also fantasise.

But doing it without consent aka rape is just so wrong.

Even with consent, hardly anyone will think about documenting evidence when things are going well. In singapore the women's charter is all-powerful. Consent can become no-consent suddenly and swinger becomes rapist in an instant.

[Xgenre]

I feel sorry for the children involved. Daddy's going to jail for a long time because he drugged mummy and helped other men rape mummy secretly for many years. How do you even explain that?

[newyorker88]

I feel sorry for the children involved. Daddy's going to jail for a long time because he drugged mummy and helped other men rape mummy secretly for many years. How do you even explain that?

This is dark side exposed

[Jabba]

The world is a different place

[Suharto]

This is rape

But one must also ask the question that if it is rape why did none of the rape victims lodge a police report except one? Why did the judge not ask the other women why no police report was made and why?

The others confessed but the wifes said they were drugged, where is the toxicology report? How did one woman not know she was raped for 7 years? And when she discovered she was raped, why did she not make a police report? What make her changed her mind to rape only after 7 years?

These are questions that the judge must ask before accepting any plea to make sure its not a coerced plea, its called due process which the judge did not perform

Like this anyone can have a swinging party with their partners, what is to make sure that partner will not turn on you one day and cry rape?

Do not just take SG courts decision at face value, remember parti liyani case? She was accused of all kinds of things but did none of the sort.

SG system is as long a person admits guilt he is convicted, its a silly and clownish system that does not even exist in Indon where i am. In Indon there are 3 hakim where the case will never make it to courts as the dossier is incomplete.

All rape cases must have a rape kit, anyone with the police force can tell you this, the kit consists blood sample, semen samples and vaginal scarring, where is all this? Just because the women point at their now ex husband and cried rape? What is to make sure these women are being genuine and not just crying rape on their now ex husbands for some other reason?

Bapak also believe that their defence lawyers are goons and illiterates and have done misjustice to their clients, they should have seek trial and bring all these issues out, it will create reasonable doubt and
get the case thrown out. The biggest culprit is the judge, he should be impeached and removed from the bench for not according the accused due process by rejecting the pleas as the evidence was incomplete

[Nismo]

If I’m truly innocent, I’ll wish my case to be heard in a Singapore court.

And will obviously lawyer up nonetheless.

If I’m indeed guilty, I’ll be happy to have an Indonesian judge to preside over my case.

Will ensure my war chest is adequate.

[Depraved]

One who grasp the facts of the case won’t ask these questions because the answers are fairly obvious. For some reason you keep trying to undermine the facts with your whataboutism and strawmen arguments.

Why did none of the other victims lodge police report except one?
So many factors stopping women from coming forward. From shame to straight up not knowing. Even the one victim who reported only found out she was raped by chance when she discovered her husbands text chat. And this was years AFTER those rapes had taken place. It was hard enough for one victim to discover, and you are here crying that the other victims aren’t able to magically come to that knowledge as well?

Why did the judge not ask the other women why no police report was made and why?
How do you know if they did or did not? Even if they did, it would be under wraps as their identities would be protected. This case was brought to light by 1 victim who had evidence (text messages), so the reporting focused on that.

The others confessed but the wifes said they were drugged, where is the toxicology report?
Let me get this straight, you want the toxicology report for drugs they were fed up to 7 years ago? Yeah, okay, sure. The government’s time traveling CSI ppl sure are incompetent. Buhuhu, taxmoney wasted and all that.

How did one woman not know she was raped for 7 years?
Fuck, I dunno. Maybe because she was drugged to the point of non-consciousness when it happened? Even if she woke up sore, she could just have chalked it up to her and husband getting randy when drunk. What woman wants to draw the conclusion that their significant other invited ppl to rape her?

And when she discovered she was raped, why did she not make a police report?
At this point it is fairly clear that for some reason, you are just spouting off these questions without actually reading the article. She did report to police. That’s how this whole case came to be.

What make her changed her mind to rape only after 7 years?
Again, baseless and unsubstantiated. You keep insinuating that she knew it all along when the facts of the case shows she only discovered it recently through her husbands’s chats. Is that so hard to accept?

These are questions that the judge must ask before accepting any plea to make sure its not a coerced plea, its called due process which the judge did not perform.
No, this is called ‘your process’ in your fantasy world where women are psychic who knows what is happening when they are unconscious and the police can send CSI teams back in time to do a tox screen.

Like this anyone can have a swinging party with their partners, what is to make sure that partner will not turn on you one day and cry rape?
Well, ideally, when planning a swinging party, you would have correspondence with all involved which showed that they were all consenting parties. And not something like, I dunno, gloating about drugging your wife and letting other ppl have their way with her, which is the very legal definition of rape. So to answer your question, ‘What is to make sure your partner will not turn on you and cry rape?’ How about not broadcasting the fact you helped ppl rape your wife in chats? Is that too hard?

Do not just take SG courts decision at face value, remember parti liyani case? She was accused of all kinds of things but did none of the sort.
“Uhuh uhuh sure. Did she have text messages admitting to doing it? Did she confess in court that she did it like the guy who helped ppl raped his wife? Why bring her up then? You should just use Nelson Mandela as a strawman la. Wayyyy bigger impact.”

SG system is as long a person admits guilt he is convicted, its a silly and clownish system that does not even exist in Indon where i am. In Indon there are 3 hakim where the case will never make it to courts as the dossier is incomplete.
Yeah, that’s just called being effective. A person admits guilt, means no contest, means move on to sentencing. Why the heck do you need 3 overpaid government stooges to sit there discussing the finer points of waving a gavel when the defendant already admit to the crime?

All rape cases must have a rape kit, anyone with the police force can tell you this, the kit consists blood sample, semen samples and vaginal scarring, where is all this? Just because the women point at their now ex husband and cried rape? What is to make sure these women are being genuine and not just crying rape on their now ex husbands for some other reason?
Totally, totally. That damn time-travelling CSI team really not worth the taxpayer money haiz. Rape happened years ago also cannot do rape kit test.

Bapak also believe that their defence lawyers are goons and illiterates and have done misjustice to their clients, they should have seek trial and bring all these issues out, it will create reasonable doubt and
get the case thrown out. The biggest culprit is the judge, he should be impeached and removed from the bench for not according the accused due process by rejecting the pleas as the evidence was incomplete


Bapak sounds more like a nervous fella who saw how a wife rapist got his comeuppance and is trying to distract people from facts by throwing wild accusations and red herrings in all directions, possibly because he felt this one hits a bit too close to home. Why ah Bapak? Feeling a little warm ah to hear someone like that kena?


But one must also ask the question that if it is rape why did none of the rape victims lodge a police report except one? Why did the judge not ask the other women why no police report was made and why?

The others confessed but the wifes said they were drugged, where is the toxicology report? How did one woman not know she was raped for 7 years? And when she discovered she was raped, why did she not make a police report? What make her changed her mind to rape only after 7 years?

These are questions that the judge must ask before accepting any plea to make sure its not a coerced plea, its called due process which the judge did not perform

Like this anyone can have a swinging party with their partners, what is to make sure that partner will not turn on you one day and cry rape?

Do not just take SG courts decision at face value, remember parti liyani case? She was accused of all kinds of things but did none of the sort.

SG system is as long a person admits guilt he is convicted, its a silly and clownish system that does not even exist in Indon where i am. In Indon there are 3 hakim where the case will never make it to courts as the dossier is incomplete.

All rape cases must have a rape kit, anyone with the police force can tell you this, the kit consists blood sample, semen samples and vaginal scarring, where is all this? Just because the women point at their now ex husband and cried rape? What is to make sure these women are being genuine and not just crying rape on their now ex husbands for some other reason?

Bapak also believe that their defence lawyers are goons and illiterates and have done misjustice to their clients, they should have seek trial and bring all these issues out, it will create reasonable doubt and
get the case thrown out. The biggest culprit is the judge, he should be impeached and removed from the bench for not according the accused due process by rejecting the pleas as the evidence was incomplete

[plok]

Correct, but why she did not make a police report? Anyone can make an accusation of rape including the makcik selling kuih but why no police report?


Because when the rape occured, she was drugged and unconscious thus unaware?

[Hurricane88]

If I’m truly innocent, I’ll wish my case to be heard in a Singapore court.

And will obviously lawyer up nonetheless.

If I’m indeed guilty, I’ll be happy to have an Indonesian judge to preside over my case.

Will ensure my war chest is adequate.

I am glad that the Singapore Courts kept us safe and kept criminals away.

[ilikeoldchangke]

If you cannot draw the line between fantasy and reality, you are literally just looking for trouble. You may get away with it a couple of times, but the moment you fail, it's game over not just for you, but for the entire family.

A full testicle may cloud judgement, empty it and you will be able to see clearly.

There are plenty of wife sharing porn productions online, there's a whole section dedicated to it produced by the japs. It's a common fetish and fantasy, and it's best to keep it that way.
As a fantasy.

Not all swinging arrangements & wife sharing ends in a bed of roses. Happy endings do exists, usually in stories and porn. :D

You didn't marry the woman you love just to share her around for fetishes, keep those fantasies in your head and deal with it in other ways. Just get creative without hurting the ones you love.

Searching for 'NTR' porn gives you enough content for hours of entertainment.

You can also find wife sharing fantasy stories written in different languages online. There are plenty of those stories on SBF too, most are free to read.
If it's not, write your own.


Some things in life are best kept as a fantasy, that way, the picture always remains beautiful in the safety of your head.

If you really need to get your fantasy out and share, share with me. :D

Maybe i can turn them into a story. :D

[naan1974]

Worst than a pimp who share prostitutes earnings.
he drugged his own wife KO and rent her out for rape session!
This fellow has a place reserved in hell....

[donut88]

We may like porn and fantasy but must have lines drawn.

In another thread, ppl are sharing own wife's or gfs photos for others to see. I just don't feel comfortable with it. This will lead to other things

[Jabba]

This is playing with fire.

[Suharto]

Because when the rape occured, she was drugged and unconscious thus unaware?

Then where is the toxicology report to prove?

[Suharto]

I am glad that the Singapore Courts kept us safe and kept criminals away.

You feel safe? Even your most famous lawyer in singapore subhas anandan was wrongly convicted, see below

[
In March 1976,[17] Anandan was arrested by the police for suspected involvement in a secret society under the Criminal Law (Temporary Provisions) Act.[18] He was released from remand and exonerated in November of the same year following an investigation by the Corrupt Practices Investigation Bureau.[19]
]

[
While Anandan was critical of some aspects of the criminal justice system in Singapore, he believed that the system had to be followed. He also had a personal mantra of "the most heinous offenders deserve their day in a court of law"; hence Anandan had claimed to have never rejected cases because of the offence the person had been charged with.[16][21]
]

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subhas_Anandan

He became a lawyer because he knew the system in and out, and the singapore court system is clownish, such cases will not even see the light of day in USA, let alone indonesia

[Suharto]

Bapak will rebut you point by point :D

One who grasp the facts of the case won’t ask these questions because the answers are fairly obvious. For some reason you keep trying to undermine the facts with your whataboutism and strawmen arguments.

The facts are there to see for all since you said strawman argument means there is already reasonable doubt, that itself is enough for dismissal


So many factors stopping women from coming forward. From shame to straight up not knowing. Even the one victim who reported only found out she was raped by chance when she discovered her husbands text chat. And this was years AFTER those rapes had taken place. It was hard enough for one victim to discover, and you are here crying that the other victims aren’t able to magically come to that knowledge as well?


This is a court of law not a aunt agony session, its what you can prove in court that matters, and this is why they were never convicted of rape but attempted rape.

Anyone can be arrested and charged on attempted crime, they are basically being charged on a thought crime. This way if at work you praise a woman, she can claim attempted sexual harrasment, its stupid on many levels

How do you know if they did or did not? Even if they did, it would be under wraps as their identities would be protected. This case was brought to light by 1 victim who had evidence (text messages), so the reporting focused on that.

Court documents showed none, they were convicted on the confession, this means the judge is a full scale idiot


The others confessed but the wifes said they were drugged, where is the toxicology report?
Let me get this straight, you want the toxicology report for drugs they were fed up to 7 years ago? Yeah, okay, sure. The government’s time traveling CSI ppl sure are incompetent. Buhuhu, taxmoney wasted and all that.


So simple answer is tiada betul? So if no toxicology report how do they know they were drugged? Who sold them the drug? Did the police nab the seller? Did he say he sold to them, all answers point to no. This is why in many countries there is a law called statute of limitations, this means that after a number of years that person cannot be charged else people can charge you for rape in the 1960s when you are already in your 90s and senile.


Fuck, I dunno. Maybe because she was drugged to the point of non-consciousness when it happened? Even if she woke up sore, she could just have chalked it up to her and husband getting randy when drunk. What woman wants to draw the conclusion that their significant other invited ppl to rape her?


Very good answer, if you do not know, how will the judge know? He was there? He never asks this questions, these itself are grounds for appeal

At this point it is fairly clear that for some reason, you are just spouting off these questions without actually reading the article. She did report to police. That’s how this whole case came to be.


Read the article again, the one that reported rape was not the 7 year lady, it was the lady that found her nudes on the telegram channel. So again why did the rest not report to the police? why? This is what the judge must ask

Again, baseless and unsubstantiated. You keep insinuating that she knew it all along when the facts of the case shows she only discovered it recently through her husbands’s chats. Is that so hard to accept?

Lets assume you are right on this, then why no police report on her husband? That itself will throw out the narrative that she did not know, this questions the judge must ask them

No, this is called ‘your process’ in your fantasy world where women are psychic who knows what is happening when they are unconscious and the police can send CSI teams back in time to do a tox screen.

Then how they know it happened? Just lijke the indon lawyer for one of the man said, his client has been talking about it since 2010, now its 2022, 12 years and he still talking about it? Means he was never going to act on it, he was simply a talk cock king, should all show offs also be arrested? He is now jailed on a thought crime

Well, ideally, when planning a swinging party, you would have correspondence with all involved which showed that they were all consenting parties.

Most of them are using space cards so that will be difficult to prove in court, this is why the judge must ask for the rape kit to made, and judge each kits on their merits and dismiss the cases that have no merit

And not something like, I dunno, gloating about drugging your wife and letting other ppl have their way with her, which is the very legal definition of rape. So to answer your question, ‘What is to make sure your partner will not turn on you and cry rape?’ How about not broadcasting the fact you helped ppl rape your wife in chats? Is that too hard?

Some people like to over boast, i got do this and do that, but all fiction, its common for that to happen online especially in a sex forum, but in a court of law it must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt

Yeah, that’s just called being effective. A person admits guilt, means no contest, means move on to sentencing. Why the heck do you need 3 overpaid government stooges to sit there discussing the finer points of waving a gavel when the defendant already admit to the crime?

Your singapore police have a record of make fake statements from witness see below

[
https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/2-police-investigation-officers-forged-dozens-statements-1929676

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/police-officer-forged-statement-of-alleged-victim-of-molestation-portraying

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/8-coroners-inquiries-reopened-after-cop-alleged-to-have-forged-statements
]

Since in your singapore have done this many time where the police always make fake witness statements, how do we know their plea was not coerced? This is why the judge must ask those questions before accepting the guilty plea and if the questions cannot be answered then he must set a trial where the accused must face their accusers whether in a shadow box or in person, this way the lawyer can strike down all the narratives in court

Rape happened years ago also cannot do rape kit test.

Bingo my singaporean friend, so if there is no rape kit or evidence how do we know it happened then? Just because the women say so?

trying to distract people from facts by throwing wild accusations and red herrings in all directions

Maybe indonesians and singaporeans are different, indon citizens like myself do not like injustice to be done to anyone, singaporeans seems to want to live under a dictatorship while almost whole of asia has already gotten rid of theirs.

You cannot allow injustice to happen in your country even if the criminal is an idiot because today if they can do this someone else they will do it another person, tmrw they can accuse you on attempted rape on your postings on this forum too, attempted only thought crime :D

[raxip]

Look, these guys are not exactly naive innocent young boibois. They are BD managers, company directors etc, what is known in Chinese as lamps that are not fuel-saving.

If they feel that they have a realistic chance of avoiding jailtime (which is going to be very long), they would have lawyered up and claimed trial. The fact that they pleaded guilty is probably to save the family from being hurt even more when the evidence is clear to see.

Videos and photos are very incriminating, and it seems these guys have recorded a bunch to convict themselves many times over.

I don't care what Indon justice system is, and why some self-proclaimed Indon-loving person is here to start politicizing and shooting his/her mouth around, but this case is quite clear for most reasonable people to see. Maybe you have some grudge against the system. I don't blame you, but you do you. Just don't do someone without his/her consent.

[candle2000]

.......................................
Many of us are here because we don't have that special someone. And they have that someone yet they drug them to be raped by someone? I really cannot understand what is wrong with them.

You are right Bro, many of us have no one to give us a comfortable and physical
love and copulation . Yet they do not want to treasure their partners/spouses.

I had mentioned before that a pussy-in-hand is worth thousand walking in the street. Never give away or share the faithful pussy solely for you.

[Depraved]

Aduhai bapak, ur rebuttal flimsy as hell.

The facts are there to see for all since you said strawman argument means there is already reasonable doubt, that itself is enough for dismissal
LMAO. The one making strawmen argument is you. Since when is strawmen argument any grounds for reasonable doubt? If anything it just proves your argument is nowhere reasonable. This is detracting from your arguments, not supporting it.

This is a court of law not a aunt agony session, its what you can prove in court that matters, and this is why they were never convicted of rape but attempted rape.
So what’s your point? The evidence is sufficient for that charge and they readily plead guilty to that charge, so that wraps up that charge. That's how the law works. Probably still got other charges pending. And so what if it is attempted rape? Still rapist la. A guy force Bapak to bend over and tickle Bapak’s asshole with his dick, to Bapak, that guy still a saint la?

Anyone can be arrested and charged on attempted crime, they are basically being charged on a thought crime. This way if at work you praise a woman, she can claim attempted sexual harrasment, its stupid on many levels
Aiyo Bapak, cannot like dis. Just because u stupid, cannot say others is stupid. Just because you cannot tell the difference between a faux pass and actually drugging and getting your wife raped while telling it all in your chats, doesn’ mean it is stupid on so many levels. Maybe on Bapak’s level lah.

Court documents showed none, they were convicted on the confession, this means the judge is a full scale idiot
Bapak live in imaginary world again. Does Bapak even know what a confession is? It is the criminal admitting to his own guilt. Dah admit, then the judge can proceed lah. Why Bapak complain about judge doing his job? It is not that difficult to understand Bapak. Admit guilty = sentenced as guilty. Doh.

So simple answer is tiada betul? So if no toxicology report how do they know they were drugged? Who sold them the drug? Did the police nab the seller? Did he say he sold to them, all answers point to no. This is why in many countries there is a law called statute of limitations, this means that after a number of years that person cannot be charged else people can charge you for rape in the 1960s when you are already in your 90s and senile.
Aduhai no lah Bapak, simple answer is, tox report is not relevant here. Neither is all the stuff Bapak mentioned, because again, the wife-rapist confessed to drugging his wife in his text messages and then plead guilty to in in court. See point above. Also thanks to Bapak’s kawan, the notorious drug rapist Bill Cosby, many states in US exclude rape from statute of limitations oledi. I guess Bapak’s good ol era coming to an end la, is that why Bapak mad?

Very good answer, if you do not know, how will the judge know? He was there? He never asks this questions, these itself are grounds for appeal
I really worry for Bapak’s mental health. Now Bapak expects judge to not only be psychic, but act like a lawyer? I think Bapak confused with judges from Judge Dredd from Bapak’s time. The judge doesn’t have to know shit. The judge’s job is to sit there and listen to both sides in impartiality. How the Judge know? Obviously the prosecution present the text messages. How the judge decide? Obviously because the defendant plead guilty. Case closed. Judge is not there to investigate. Grounds of appeal and all that shit is the defendant’s lawyer’s job to initiate, which again, is moot because the lawyer’s client himself decided to plea guilty.

Read the article again, the one that reported rape was not the 7 year lady, it was the lady that found her nudes on the telegram channel. So again why did the rest not report to the police? why? This is what the judge must ask
No leh Bapak. Do you think if a serial rapist rape Bapak’s backside, as long as all his other victims remain quiet, Bapak’s case cannot proceed issit? Don’t worry Bapak, court can decide case by case one. Other victims case boleh investigate and prosecute at their own pace because got their own challenges. Other people kena assrape has nothing to do with Bapak’s assrape. This is especially so if the serial rapists text messages showed himself gloating about how lovely Bapak’s ass felt on his cock. Plus if the serial rapist confess to it in court, lagi Slam Dunk case. Bapak’s ass will get justice first among all the other asses. That’s a good thing, Bapak.

Lets assume you are right on this, then why no police report on her husband? That itself will throw out the narrative that she did not know, this questions the judge must ask them
What Bapak mean? If no police report, how this case go to court? If you’re talking about documentation, I can onli assume it is because of the gag order.

Then how they know it happened? Just lijke the indon lawyer for one of the man said, his client has been talking about it since 2010, now its 2022, 12 years and he still talking about it? Means he was never going to act on it, he was simply a talk cock king, should all show offs also be arrested? He is now jailed on a thought crime
Aiya purposely ignoring the obvious again. How they know it happened? Because in his chat he admit it happen, and in court he admit again he did it. That’s not thought crime. That’s confessed crime.

Most of them are using space cards so that will be difficult to prove in court, this is why the judge must ask for the rape kit to made, and judge each kits on their merits and dismiss the cases that have no merit
Again Bapak’s brain going liao. Or maybe Bapak doesn’ know rape kits don’t work on rapes that happened after significant time has passed? Let’s use the example of Bapak’s Ass-rapist again. If Bapak’s ass kena raped a year ago and the rape kit cannot detect anything because Bapak’s ass love to absorb cum and any rectal damage has been long soothed by the amount of shit that passed through it, what good is that rape kit test? It’s a pointless test, and thus cannot be used to ascertain anything.

Some people like to over boast, i got do this and do that, but all fiction, its common for that to happen online especially in a sex forum, but in a court of law it must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt
It was totally proved beyond reasonable doubt. Again, the guy plead guilty. It can’ get more provable than that.

Since in your singapore have done this many time where the police always make fake witness statements, how do we know their plea was not coerced? This is why the judge must ask those questions before accepting the guilty plea and if the questions cannot be answered then he must set a trial where the accused must face their accusers whether in a shadow box or in person, this way the lawyer can strike down all the narratives in court
I not Singaporean. You provide three articles out of literally hundreds of cases that happen every year, and your conclusion is Singapore police “ALWAYS” make false statements? No lah Bapak, u need to do better than that. And again, no, judge don’t need to do all of that. If guy wants to face his accusers and do all those stuff, there is already a way. It’s called pleading “Not Guilty.”

Bingo my singaporean friend, so if there is no rape kit or evidence how do we know it happened then? Just because the women say so?
Again, not Singa. And again, Bapak, put on your reading glasses and start takig english lessons again if your ingerris not vely good, we know it happened because of the man’s chats. You may say he talk cock, but the man himself says no, he totally did it. And when presented the chance to challenge the charge, he plead guilty. In the face of those overwhelming evidence, there is no need to even entertain the notion of goin back in time to do a rape kit test.

Maybe indonesians and singaporeans are different, indon citizens like myself do not like injustice to be done to anyone, singaporeans seems to want to live under a dictatorship while almost whole of asia has already gotten rid of theirs.
You cannot allow injustice to happen in your country even if the criminal is an idiot because today if they can do this someone else they will do it another person, tmrw they can accuse you on attempted rape on your postings on this forum too, attempted only thought crime
Foooyoh. Bapak take a simple open-and-shut case and go full real-politik with it. Truly your biggest strawman yet. But it seems like Bapak onli don’t like injustice for very specific subset of people that Bapak like to geng with leh. Bapak cannot put yourself in the woman’s shoes and consider the injustice done to her if her rapists walk off scott free ah? Really cannot get Bapak’s logic here. Be careful of punishing criminals for their crimes in case one day you get caught doing the crime and get punished too? Yeah, no shit. That’s the whole point we have a justice system.



Bapak will rebut you point by point :D



The facts are there to see for all since you said strawman argument means there is already reasonable doubt, that itself is enough for dismissal




This is a court of law not a aunt agony session, its what you can prove in court that matters, and this is why they were never convicted of rape but attempted rape.

Anyone can be arrested and charged on attempted crime, they are basically being charged on a thought crime. This way if at work you praise a woman, she can claim attempted sexual harrasment, its stupid on many levels



Court documents showed none, they were convicted on the confession, this means the judge is a full scale idiot



So simple answer is tiada betul? So if no toxicology report how do they know they were drugged? Who sold them the drug? Did the police nab the seller? Did he say he sold to them, all answers point to no. This is why in many countries there is a law called statute of limitations, this means that after a number of years that person cannot be charged else people can charge you for rape in the 1960s when you are already in your 90s and senile.




Very good answer, if you do not know, how will the judge know? He was there? He never asks this questions, these itself are grounds for appeal



Read the article again, the one that reported rape was not the 7 year lady, it was the lady that found her nudes on the telegram channel. So again why did the rest not report to the police? why? This is what the judge must ask



Lets assume you are right on this, then why no police report on her husband? That itself will throw out the narrative that she did not know, this questions the judge must ask them



Then how they know it happened? Just lijke the indon lawyer for one of the man said, his client has been talking about it since 2010, now its 2022, 12 years and he still talking about it? Means he was never going to act on it, he was simply a talk cock king, should all show offs also be arrested? He is now jailed on a thought crime



Most of them are using space cards so that will be difficult to prove in court, this is why the judge must ask for the rape kit to made, and judge each kits on their merits and dismiss the cases that have no merit



Some people like to over boast, i got do this and do that, but all fiction, its common for that to happen online especially in a sex forum, but in a court of law it must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt



Your singapore police have a record of make fake statements from witness see below

[
https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/2-police-investigation-officers-forged-dozens-statements-1929676

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/police-officer-forged-statement-of-alleged-victim-of-molestation-portraying

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/8-coroners-inquiries-reopened-after-cop-alleged-to-have-forged-statements
]

Since in your singapore have done this many time where the police always make fake witness statements, how do we know their plea was not coerced? This is why the judge must ask those questions before accepting the guilty plea and if the questions cannot be answered then he must set a trial where the accused must face their accusers whether in a shadow box or in person, this way the lawyer can strike down all the narratives in court



Bingo my singaporean friend, so if there is no rape kit or evidence how do we know it happened then? Just because the women say so?



Maybe indonesians and singaporeans are different, indon citizens like myself do not like injustice to be done to anyone, singaporeans seems to want to live under a dictatorship while almost whole of asia has already gotten rid of theirs.

You cannot allow injustice to happen in your country even if the criminal is an idiot because today if they can do this someone else they will do it another person, tmrw they can accuse you on attempted rape on your postings on this forum too, attempted only thought crime :D

[Xgenre]

Because when the rape occured, she was drugged and unconscious thus unaware?

Aduhai bapak, ur rebuttal flimsy as hell.

Guys, please stop feeding the troll. We can never out-logic illogical people. For whatever he is saying, he will not dare to come to Singapore to rape someone. He will never dare to ask the SPF to produce a toxilogy or whatever cock report he is suggesting. He is actually not that interested in this case.

Please also be more aware of the side-plot developing in this thread. His extreme positions in this thread provides a perfect setting for his clones to up his points. He only had 56 points when he made his first post in this thread. So if the moderator probes why the points for his nick increase by at least 500 points since then, it will appear as if many people agree with his extreme posts and up his points. The things people do or say for forum points... isn't surprising anymore.

Suharto, just do what you wish to do. No need to slam Singapore in the process. You don't see us slamming Indonesia in our replies right? Knowing when to shut up takes a high level of intelligence.

I am glad that the Singapore Courts kept us safe and kept criminals away.

I agree with you totally. We are lucky to be living in the safety Singapore provides. As forum moderator, I think you can verify what I posted about his points right? I think we just let him be lah. Points also cannot be exchanged for goods

[Hurricane88]

You feel safe? Even your most famous lawyer in singapore subhas anandan was wrongly convicted, see below

[
In March 1976,[17] Anandan was arrested by the police for suspected involvement in a secret society under the Criminal Law (Temporary Provisions) Act.[18] He was released from remand and exonerated in November of the same year following an investigation by the Corrupt Practices Investigation Bureau.[19]
]

When anyone became too famous and trying to undermine the justice in Singapore...be it he is a top lawyer, he will be investigated when there is a criminal evidence leading to conviction...:)

We normal citizens felt safe becos we dun break gahment policies...or simply hurt anyone feelings...:)

[Hurricane88]

I agree with you totally. We are lucky to be living in the safety Singapore provides. As forum moderator, I think you can verify what I posted about his points right? I think we just let him be lah. Points also cannot be exchanged for goods

This is a forum and a place whereby anyone can say anything so long no flaming vulgarities and break sbf rules...I am ok with him expressing his views...I dun believe and agree with whatever he written...so just read with open mind...:)

BTW, he did post in points exchange threads and so reason why he was upped >500 points...:)

[Suharto]

Guys, please stop feeding the troll. We can never out-logic illogical people

Yes true bapak is a troll from indonesia, bapak love you too :p

He will never dare to ask the SPF to produce a toxilogy or whatever cock report he is suggesting. He is actually not that interested in this case.

That is the problem with the justice in sg, its so skewed to the point a judge is unable to validate the due process, whether a person is guilty or innocent, there must be a due process, sg courts is setup more to be like a communist tribunal where the accused is not allowed to defend himself at all

Please also be more aware of the side-plot developing in this thread. His extreme positions in this thread

Why is it extreme? Just because bapak pointed out the lack of evidence to convict? If they were guilty of rape then why charged with attempted rape? Because simply there was no rape in the first place, because with the charges of rape they would have to to bring out the rape kit, which will show zero evidence

No need to slam Singapore in the process. You don't see us slamming Indonesia in our replies right?

Nobody is slamming the country but simply pointing out inaccuracies in the justice system in sg, the justice system must be fair to all and not used as a tool to justify the ends

We are lucky to be living in the safety Singapore provides.

SG is far from safe, looks only safe because most of the crimes are censored

[Suharto]

Once again Bapak will rebut you point by point again :D :p

Aduhai bapak, ur rebuttal flimsy as hell.
If anything it just proves your argument is nowhere reasonable. This is detracting from your arguments, not supporting it

No issue if you do not subscribe to bapak's view, but you must ask the question why were they convicted of lesser crimes of the attempted nature when actually by you own post they have admitted and be charged for rape?
Reason is simply there was no evidence in the first case besides a self confession which can be easily coerced

So what’s your point? The evidence is sufficient for that charge and they readily plead guilty to that charge, so that wraps up that charge. That's how the law works. Probably still got other charges pending. And so what if it is attempted rape? Still rapist la. A guy force Bapak to bend over and tickle Bapak’s asshole with his dick, to Bapak, that guy still a saint la?

But bapak will make police report in indon, and indon police will send bapak to hospital to make a rape kit :D

Problem now comes these were all not available to be struck down why? The judge must ask the question even if he hates the criminals because its his job as a judge which is due lacking

BJust because you cannot tell the difference between a faux pass and actually drugging and getting your wife raped while telling it all in your chats, doesn’ mean it is stupid on so many levels. Maybe on Bapak’s level lah.

Then where is toxicology report showing they were drugged? If not, who sold them the pills? Did the seller ID them? If no body ID them and there is not toxicology report then how do we know they were drugged? Because they say so?

live in imaginary world again. Does Bapak even know what a confession is? It is the criminal admitting to his own guilt. Dah admit, then the judge can proceed lah.

No a judge cannot simply accept a guilty plea. Some people may have low iq or even paid sums of money to take blame or for other reasons, so the judge in the interest of the law in sg must ask those questions and if he cannot get the answers then set a trial where those questions can be answered with cross examinations

no lah Bapak, simple answer is, tox report is not relevant here. Neither is all the stuff Bapak mentioned, because again, the wife-rapist confessed to drugging his wife in his text messages and then plead guilty to in in court

This part is very intriguing, because the wife said, she saw the videos on her husbands phone, how did she know his password? She sent the videos herself or someone else sent it? These are questions that must be naswered


the notorious drug rapist Bill Cosby, many states in US exclude rape from statute of limitations oledi. I guess Bapak’s good ol era coming to an end la, is that why Bapak mad?

Bapak very glad you bring this up, because what happened end of the day? His conviction was overturned by the supreme court due to lack of evidence

https://apnews.com/article/why-was-bill-cosby-conviction-overturned-2a65ec25c153fbd1c24b1c58a2b6e583

This is also a possibility here is sg, because it seems that if they go to appeal in the court, the case might be thrown out in appeal, but bapak have no trust in the SG court system as it is clownish

The judge doesn’t have to know shit

Then become judge for what better go sell kuih at pasar malam, the judge in this case neglected in his duty, any other country he will be impeached and removed from the bench

What Bapak mean? If no police report, how this case go to court?

They track the so called victims to scare them even though it might have been consensual. So question again rises if she was raped, why did the rest of the women not make any police report? Why?

purposely ignoring the obvious again. How they know it happened? Because in his chat he admit it happen, and in court he admit again he did it. That’s not thought crime. That’s confessed crime.


But how does the public not know that the confession was no coerced? SG has a reputation of police make false testimonies and false statements. This is why the judge must ask before accepting any pleas to make sure the the confession is legitimate and not coerced

Again Bapak’s brain going liao. Or maybe Bapak doesn’ know rape kits don’t work on rapes that happened after significant time has passed?

Thank you for proving bapak's point so that means there was no evidence of rape since the kit did not exist, so how in the world did the judge convict them? This type of conviction does not even happen in china and its communist

If guy wants to face his accusers and do all those stuff, there is already a way. It’s called pleading “Not Guilty.”

But what if he is uneducated or of low iq? This is why the judge must ask the questions on his behalf and if the questions cannot be answered a trial is set

You may say he talk cock, but the man himself says no, he totally did it.

That is according to his indon lawyer not me

cannot put yourself in the woman’s shoes and consider the injustice done to her if her rapists walk off scott free ah?

But how do we know she is not a disgruntled wife making up stories? This is why the judge must ask the questions, the judge is derelict in his duty and should be impeached and removed from the bench

That’s the whole point we have a justice system.

Yes you do but its a clownish one, worst than a communist tribunal :D

[Hurricane88]

Well quite harsh punishment...not sure those idiosyncrasies worth it..:)

https://tnp.straitstimes.com/news/singapore/4-men-wife-sharing-fantasies-who-conspired-drug-and-rape-wives-jailed-135-years-22

The 20 strokes rotan will be painful...:)

[Xgenre]

Quite confusing to read. The worst guy J has yet to be sentenced. His wife kenna raped the most by different guys it seems. Over a period of 8 years.

[blastit]

Quite confusing to read. The worst guy J has yet to be sentenced. His wife kenna raped the most by different guys it seems. Over a period of 8 years.

Sometimes, they deal with the simplest ones 1st. The worst ones may have more complications in the case and hence, sentencing not as fast.

[sammyboyforumm]

Quite confusing to read. The worst guy J has yet to be sentenced. His wife kenna raped the most by different guys it seems. Over a period of 8 years.

Typical SOP by AGC. They want to get a minimal benchmark from the lesser cases, so that they hantam big big for the main culprit. Just wait and see

[pornhub]

Quite confusing to read. The worst guy J has yet to be sentenced. His wife kenna raped the most by different guys it seems. Over a period of 8 years.

N is the best. No wife to share and gets to fuck all the wives.

[Xgenre]

Typical SOP by AGC. They want to get a minimal benchmark from the lesser cases, so that they hantam big big for the main culprit. Just wait and see

Sometimes, they deal with the simplest ones 1st. The worst ones may have more complications in the case and hence, sentencing not as fast.

How much worse can it get? It's already 20 years and 20 strokes of rotan for some of the convicted guys.

N is the best. No wife to share and gets to fuck all the wives.

Really? Lost in reading. I know J's wife is the worst. Raped by so many guys over 8 years. I think she has to attend each trial as a witness.

I mean many of us like to read stories. However ridiculous also can. But when a story becomes real as reported in the news, I cannot find the same enjoyment as reading a SBF story. I feel sorry for the wives and their kids.

[pornhub]

According to the report, there is no consents from the wives. Raping your wife and allow others to rape your wife. They deserved the punishment.

Really pity the wives and their kids. Hope they are able to move on from here.

[Jaycu69]

It seems that rape is the top criminal in Singapore. Are Singapore men really so desperate until every now & then, we read news about rape every week.

Today’s news on the multiple partners, I read until so confusing on who is raping whose wife.

Another article on employer raping a maid when wife cannot satisfy him.

Singapore society has changed …

[iluvbreast]

I think this is damn sad story, if all 4 couples involved have children, then it is 3x4=12 families destroyed?

Imagine, the parents or siblings came to know their son/brother is going to jail because of this? Or the wife's side of the family? and children when they grow up they came to know their father arranged for other men to rape their mother? :(

This is one sick situation, I cannot imagine what was going through their heads. Well they will have plenty of time to learn that somethings in life cannot be done.

[iluvbreast]

How much worse can it get? It's already 20 years and 20 strokes of rotan for some of the convicted guys.



Really? Lost in reading. I know J's wife is the worst. Raped by so many guys over 8 years. I think she has to attend each trial as a witness.

I mean many of us like to read stories. However ridiculous also can. But when a story becomes real as reported in the news, I cannot find the same enjoyment as reading a SBF story. I feel sorry for the wives and their kids.

The prosecution ask for 24 years for some of the convicted men although, I think they are worse than beast, a male lion still fight if his pride is attacked or if another male tried to touch his lioness...this?

I think let's wait and see

[bryanlailai]

Then where is the toxicology report to prove?

Likely the accused has confessed to this alr

[Bigbluebird]

Likely the accused has confessed to this alr

It was a video that one of the wives accidentally saw on the husband's hp, then more videos revealed upon confrontation.

What toxicology test does Samster Suharto wants? This went on for years and multiple times. Want to argue also use better logic. Getting drugged on and off, is not a weekly affair that can be detected, unless immediately after the crime was committed and victim was aware it was committed.

So all the wife sharing fantasy, remains a fantasy after all, in reality it's often committed as a crime to satisfy that fantasy. It's one thing to fool around outside but this really is degrading.

[blastit]

How much worse can it get? It's already 20 years and 20 strokes of rotan for some of the convicted guys.

just add 4 more to the rotan, that's the max iirc.

and jail term?? who knows hahah

[Xgenre]

just add 4 more to the rotan, that's the max iirc.

and jail term?? who knows hahah

Jail term I think it's 24. I think many of the married men will kenna divorced. Will be whacked by Women's Charter soon.

Just curious about something. A friend told me that among inmates, rapists are the group other inmates look down upon the most. Go inside likely to kenna whack again if others know. Any one can confirm this?

I also asked which group of inmates will be admired the most. He said those with CBT (criminal breach of trust). The rest of the inmates will calculate the amount of money stolen versus your jail sentence. Like the Sunshine empire guy who stole $170 million and gets a 9 year jail sentence. With good behaviour come out in 6th year, $170 million divided by 6 years. Earn more than Lee Hsien Loong.

[blastit]

Jail term I think it's 24. I think many of the married men will kenna divorced. Will be whacked by Women's Charter soon.

Just curious about something. A friend told me that among inmates, rapists are the group other inmates look down upon the most. Go inside likely to kenna whack again if others know. Any one can confirm this?

I also asked which group of inmates will be admired the most. He said those with CBT (criminal breach of trust). The rest of the inmates will calculate the amount of money stolen versus your jail sentence. Like the Sunshine empire guy who stole $170 million and gets a 9 year jail sentence. With good behaviour come out in 6th year, $170 million divided by 6 years. Earn more than Lee Hsien Loong.

Not good to be in jail but i think even CBT they have to cough out the money they embezzled and more.

I don't remb where i heard this from but i think the pedos also get it the worst inside.

[DanielChan]

Yea. Very complicated fantasy. Pity the wife, gt drugged and rape. Could have done better things. Depends on ur charge. Usually rape, molest will get special attention inside prison.

[exactmatxspeed]

Upzz for exchange.. min 6

[singleman]

Yea. Very complicated fantasy. Pity the wife, gt drugged and rape. Could have done better things. Depends on ur charge. Usually rape, molest will get special attention inside prison.

special attention mean?

[soonbeng]

How much worse can it get? It's already 20 years and 20 strokes of rotan for some of the convicted guys.



Really? Lost in reading. I know J's wife is the worst. Raped by so many guys over 8 years. I think she has to attend each trial as a witness.

I mean many of us like to read stories. However ridiculous also can. But when a story becomes real as reported in the news, I cannot find the same enjoyment as reading a SBF story. I feel sorry for the wives and their kids.

Since all the male culprits (except one) pleaded guilty, no wife has to attend any court trial as a witness, right? There won't be any court trial. Just clarifying. I'm not a lawyer. Very long prison sentences and many strokes of the rotan too. Really heavy punishments for the male culprits.

[coolmanspooky]

Just in...main culprit...29 years jail, 24 strokes...

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/wife-sharing-rape-cases-main-culprit-jail-caning-pleads-guilty-3463331

[SirLance]

Just in...main culprit...29 years jail, 24 strokes...

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/wife-sharing-rape-cases-main-culprit-jail-caning-pleads-guilty-3463331

Very heavy penalty and he will die inside.

[coolmanspooky]

42 +29 = 71..when he is out...no family, no wife....

[Xgenre]

42 +29 = 71..when he is out...no family, no wife....

1/3 remission on good behaviour. 42+20 =62

[TheIdesOfMarch]

1/3 remission on good behaviour. 42+20 =62

Will still come out no family no wife too.

[georgemagnum]

Play with limits for me :D

[Xgenre]

Will still come out no family no wife too.

If that happens, no one will blame his wife and 4 daughters. Basically if you follow the CNA chart, he let 5 guys rape his wife. In return, he get to rape 2 other ladies.

How will his wife raise 4 daughters on her own given that the family will lose his monthly income? Probably divorce him to get his assets

[loneyheart]

Sammyboy in the news again

[LovesMilktea]

why CNA never report out their sammyboy id lol :D

[donut88]

I suspect those dudes were active in the wife sharing or wife photos threads. And trace them by seeing who suddenly stop talking in those threads.

[Bigbluebird]

Some fantasies remain as fantasies, in the reality world, it becomes crimes. Sharing, swapping, peeping, forcing (which is essentially raping) are all bookworm fantasies. Just think of their wives as someone else's mothers, daughters and sisters, should give all those rapists max of the maximum. No early release for good behaviour.

[Shadow_warrior]

Correct, but why she did not make a police report? Anyone can make an accusation of rape including the makcik selling kuih but why no police report?

Why the lawyer never cross examine and ask why she did not make a police report? Because she knew what was going on? And being raped for 7 years and never knew what was going on? So what changed her decision? This is called incomplete dossier in indonesia, where the case will be thrown out by the court.

The judge must ask this question even if they plead guilty, its due diligence of the court and if she cannot answer then judge must reject the guilty plea of the defendants and put a trial date for cross examination

Also if rape case, must have a rape kit, with semen evidence, hair sample, blood samples, without all these how can the judge accept in the guilty plea? This will never happen in indonesia

The defendant lawyer might ask this question to try to bring down the credibility of the victim, albeit, I would say its a weak defence, but the fact that the accused is charged, means it has gone through the proper legal formalities of a report, being charged, AG, arrest, Courts etc...

I would say with so many men charged, and videos obtained, evidence from various parties, text, I don't see an issue of evidence at all.

Since this is Singapore we must go to what is stated in the Statute for Singapore, please look at what it takes for the prosecution to prove rape. Examine mens rea and actus rea.

Where does it say in the statute that one must have all the things you mentioned?

And since there is a conviction of a Penal Code offence, there is a fulfillment of the doctrine of proving beyond reasonable doubt. So your statement to doubt the process, actually will be a contempt of court.

Penal Code 1871

Rape
375.—(1) Any man who penetrates the vagina of a woman with his penis —
(a) without her consent; or
(b) with or without her consent, when she is below 14 years of age,
shall be guilty of an offence.
(1A) Any man (A) who penetrates, with A’s penis, the anus or mouth of another person (B) —
(a) without B’s consent; or
(b) with or without B’s consent, when B is below 14 years of age,
shall be guilty of an offence.

[Harrykato]

1/3 remission on good behaviour. 42+20 =62

dam thats 1 long time

[SirLance]

Some fantasies remain as fantasies, in the reality world, it becomes crimes. Sharing, swapping, peeping, forcing (which is essentially raping) are all bookworm fantasies. Just think of their wives as someone else's mothers, daughters and sisters, should give all those rapists max of the maximum. No early release for good behaviour.

Worst of all the men wanted the wives to be impregnant by friends. Really sicko.

[Shadow_warrior]

Only one, but not the one that got raped. The one that got a police report made on him was only according to his lawyer thinking about it from 2010

You said the wives were drugged, where is the toxicology report to prove? Just say your husband drugged you but no toxicology report to prove? Judge must ask this question cannot just accept a plea, how does the judge know that the defendants are not be forced to admit to guilt or are unaware of their rights under SG constitution of law? Because you cannot just trust the police in SG, see below

[
2 police investigation officers allegedly forged dozens of statements in separate cases

Source: https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/2-police-investigation-officers-forged-dozens-statements-1929676
]

So the judge again did not do his due diligence, he should have struck down the guilty plea and set a trial and in the trial we will know the truth, the public prosecutor also should be demoted
to collecting 10 cents for toilet in SG as thats all he seems to be good for

I would be interested to know where you read your law and if you completed your LLB.

Here's the reported evidence, clearly not all facts will be reported in social media as there is a gag order

"The court heard that the men met their respective accomplices online as early as 2010, on the forum Sammyboy and other platforms for wife-sharing fantasies.
The court heard that the men discussed various wife-sharing fantasies, exchanged details of their sex lives and would share explicit images and footage."

How do you think the Judge heard this? Mere verbal representation? No exhibits to present? No evidence?

"His wife scolded him and told him that he was crazy, so he knew she was against the idea."

Statement of of the victims

"J installed a closed-circuit television camera in his bedroom to livestream images of his wife in the nude, as well as to showcase his sexual activities.
K also had a webcam in his bedroom for livestreaming purposes. After watching, the men would sometimes commend each other on putting on a "nice show", prosecutors said.
After their crimes, the two men shared images of the rape and sexual assault and "continued to reminisce" about what they did, the prosecutors said.
The chats between the men resulted in J's wife discovering the crimes in January 2020.
J was sleeping then when his wife noticed that his phone was playing a video. She picked it up and chanced on his Skype chat with K.
In the messages, she saw explicit images of herself and as she scrolled down the messages, she discovered that the men had been exchanging their wives for sex."

More evidence for you, statements that the Judge relied on. You do know the judge has to choose who to believe right? Hence a defence lawyer and a prosecution.

On top of these incidents, K also took explicit photos of his wife in various states of nudity in public places. He shared the images with other people including J and L and maintained a blog from 2010 to 2018 where he published the explicit images.
K also admitted to making his own wife unconscious for J to have sex with her. J's wife lodged a police report on Jan 2, 2020. Incriminating photos and videos seized from both men led to the identification of other accomplices.

Photos that were incriminating. It will be hard to prove that there was consent, refer again to statute of Penal code that I posted earlier as to what constitutes Actus Reus Mens Rea.
The men did not say they did not do it, that's how solid their case in defence was. I wonder what the judge will say to a lawyer that pleads the client is not guilty facing the mountain of evidence.

The defence lawyer pleaded "absolutely no excuse or reason for the crimes our client has committed", saying they were not only serious crimes, but also crimes committed against the "one person he loves the most".

However his client has admitted that he has "a serious problem" and is "not only remorseful but ashamed about it" and accepts that he cannot go unpunished and reaps what he sows, said Mr Yeo.

Mr Chua, who defended L, said his client is remorseful and penned his remorse since 2017, clearly incriminating himself when he wrote the letter of confession.

Lawyer Mr Suang Wijaya, who acted for M, said the drugging of M's ex-wife was done by J. He asked for not more than 18 years' jail

Pertaining to your statements on evidence,

Firstly the courts would establish if the evidence was admissible or not in the first place and needing to use 5 criteria with all factors having to be satisfied.

Secondly, there can be direct, circumstantial, primary, secondary, forensic and expert evidence evinced from the various classification and forms of evidence.

You cant throw out some piece meal nuggets of the law and say the Judge was wrong. Lol...

and a legal professional cannot get away with wanton, malicious statements, that reflect falsehood, fraudulent misrepresentation and slander like this "how does the judge know that the defendants are not be forced to admit to guilt or are unaware of their rights under SG constitution of law? Because you cannot just trust the police in SG" The Onus is on you, to prove your case that there are such rampant and a trend of cases as such. A link to 2 officers can hardly be said, to represent the whole police force. And you insinuated that the police did not read them their rights, they were represented by legal counsel that would have adviced them of the rights. That's a whole can of worms you opened. Lol.

Enough said, it was fun off the boredom of submitting documents to moot over the law. Later....

[huojiaming]

cant believe i chat with that guy before

[Xgenre]

cant believe i chat with that guy before

What guy? Do you know their SBF nicks?

[sammyboyfor]

These fucktards are the ones that are causing all the problems for this forum now. :mad:

[coolmanspooky]

To think that we have similar threads here now :rolleyes:

[TheIdesOfMarch]

These fucktards are the ones that are causing all the problems for this forum now. :mad:

You cannot help it. It's not your fault. How are you to know what people post on here isn't fantasy but actual sick reality? They post here it's still publicly visible. Don't need to talk about how many underground private Telegram groups there are out there doing the same sort of thing or worse.

And specifically on this topic of wife-swapping, they don't discuss/arrange stuff through here, there's still THAT other forum too.

[Suharto]

I would be interested to know where you read your law and if you completed your LLB


Yes bapak by profession is a lawyer but only called to the bar in the UK, USA and indon. In indon bapak own a timber yard, the timber business is bapak keluarga business.

Bapak owns 5 law firms, 1 in UK, 2 in the USA and another 2 law firms in indonesia. The law firms mainly do contract law nowadays, but bapak started off in criminal law, hence bapak knows the commonwealth system in and out

Here's the reported evidence, clearly not all facts will be reported in social media as there is a gag order


True, but the main question remains of why one woman did not know she was raped for 7 years? Usually women when they have sex, they will have discharge the next 1/2 days, so bapak asks the question why the woman did not realize she had vaginal discharge for certain periods for past 7 years?

Another question, the women said they were drugged, but who can confirm it? No toxicology report? Like that any woman can just make that claim without proof and said they were drugged.

Another question is still why did the other women not make police reports? Did they know what was going on? If not why no police report was made for nearly a decade?

Now you may say that there is a confession, but how do we know that the confession was not coerced?

In singapore if you do not sign your statement you can be charged. So who verifies the statement is correct and not coerced? Its the judge, he must ask the questions and if the prosecutor cannot answer it then set a trial for those questions to be asked. The judge is derelict in his duty, if this way in any other country the judge would be impeached by now and removed from the bench

Singapore is behaving like a mini communist state where the citizens have no rights and can be accused of any crimes just because the authorities say so, that is not right and every person must be accorded justice even if you hate him, even in indon such cases will be laughed out of court, maybe even the prosecutor will be referred to the bar association

How do you think the Judge heard this?


Via the confession, but then again how do we know the confession is not made up, when the singapore police have a history of making up confessions in multiple other cases?

No exhibits to present?

The video exhibit? The handphone? How does that prove that the women did not know what was going on and bapak said how can a woman not know she was raped for 7 years? Did she not notice the vaginal discharge? If no why not? The judge must ask these questions to the women and if they cannot answer it then a trial must be set to be cross examined by the defence

You do know the judge has to choose who to believe right?

A judge is supposed to act in accordance with the law not his gut, he is not supposed to guess, because if he does that means that is grounds for appeal

The trial was conducted more like a communist tribunal more than anything else, why did the judge not ask those questions? That itself shows derelict of duty by the judge himself.

Photos that were incriminating


Photos do not show intent, that is the key. How can someone not know they were being raped for 7 years? Why did the other women not make a police report? Why is there no rape kit?

It will be hard to prove that there was consent

In this case the other women did not make a police report, also she did not realize she was being raped for 7 years? She did not notice discharge from her vagina for 7 years? That itself proves something nefarious according to bapak

refer again to statute of Penal code that I posted earlier as to what constitutes Actus Reus Mens Rea.

Yes i have and the keyword is consent. How do we know that it was not regret sex? Because reporting rape after 7 years does seem like it and again if there was continuous rape for 7 years there would be vaginal scarring, where is the doctor's report to prove that?

I wonder what the judge will say to a lawyer that pleads the client is not guilty facing the mountain of evidence.


The judge will only accept the plea, making any other comment could cause a mistrial so the judge will the just set a trial date

Lawyer Mr Suang Wijaya, who acted for M, said the drugging of M's ex-wife was done by J. He asked for not more than 18 years' jail

Bapak have to say that this is the most stupid lawyer around, he should ask the prosecutor to provide a toxicology report, when the prosecutor cannot, the prosecutor will panic and give a plea deal

Bapak have done this in many trials as a lawyer before in the past, got even one client got probation only because the district attorney could not provide one, he was facing 20 years but bapak got him probation only

Firstly the courts would establish if the evidence was admissible or not in the first place

How to establish it when the questions was not asked in the first place? The judge should have asked it and then let the lawyers hash it out, thats it to make sure who ever is being charged is treated fairly, the judge is absolutely derelict in his duty by not asking those questions

Secondly, there can be direct, circumstantial, primary, secondary, forensic and expert evidence evinced from the various classification and forms of evidence.

Correct, so where is the forensic and expert evidence? Guilty just because someone says so :eek:

So in this case anyone can accuse you of murder but there is no weapon or body but just because you were last seen with the person means you did it?
This kind of lack of judgement does not even fly in communist china courts let alone in the democratic world

You cant throw out some piece meal nuggets of the law and say the Judge was wrong. Lol...

Then why did he not ask those questions? Where is the fairness? No court in this world would entertain any women who says she was raped for 7 years and did not know it

Because you cannot just trust the police in SG

All police in all countries cannot be trusted, do not make it as if singapore police are heavenly beings, thats why there are courts to make sure that the police and state can prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt

The Onus is on you, to prove your case that there are such rampant and a trend of cases as such.

And that is the main problem with singapore legal system in that you are presumed guilty, in other countries its the other way around, in fact it should be the authorities be able to prove it.

But even if we take it at face value, why did the judge not intervene? Why did he see not fit to ask those questions?

By just using a confession and witness statement without forensic and expert evidence is simply derelict duty by the job

In the 1600s people in europe were accused of being witches by courts and burned at the stake because they claimed they have confessions from them and witnesses, only to find out that the witnesses lied and the confessions coerced, so the legal system was changed to must include forensic and expert evidence else no one can be accused

A link to 2 officers can hardly be said, to represent the whole police force.

You forgot about parti liyani? A simple search on the internet can show you multiple cases of police fabricating statement with some even forging the signatures of people of being charged

And you insinuated that the police did not read them their rights

Even local singaporeans do not have right let alone those accused of crimes

But all these thing aside we must make sure as any society that all are treated fairly in justice else one day that same system can be used against any person that is innocent like parti liyani :)

[Shadow_warrior]

Yes bapak by profession is a lawyer but only called to the bar in the UK, USA and indon. In indon bapak own a timber yard, the timber business is bapak keluarga business.

Bapak owns 5 law firms, 1 in UK, 2 in the USA and another 2 law firms in indonesia. The law firms mainly do contract law nowadays, but bapak started off in criminal law, hence bapak knows the commonwealth system in and out



Hey mate, love the moot,

basically you are selling old wine in new wineskin going on and on about pretty much the same issue

So let me establish the following things.
1. You have no authority to cast doubt on the Singapore police
2. You have no authority to cast doubt on the Singapore Legal System
I am sure, at this junction, you will agree.

I honestly say this because, none of your arguments will even be accepted in court. Maybe in Indo this kind of professionalism will fly, but certainly not in Singapore.

True, but the main question remains of why one woman did not know she was raped for 7 years? Usually women when they have sex, they will have discharge the next 1/2 days, so bapak asks the question why the woman did not realize she had vaginal discharge for certain periods for past 7 years?
this is not factual, so you would need to get an expert witness to say, that is is the norm. As per my experience, this is not true.
I am no doctor, but OTF, this is not true. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/discharge-after-sex

Another question is still why did the other women not make police reports? Did they know what was going on? If not why no police report was made for nearly a decade?
There were reports, and that's how basic legal prosecution works. There must be a charge, and then it works its way into the courts. There is no SOL for rape.

how do we know that the confession was not coerced? - can you prove it was? Whats your assertion? Confessions are legal documents. So your casting doubt on it, well, good luck with the Judge.
Singapore is behaving like a mini communist state - Not related to the case
but then again how do we know the confession is not made up - Not related to the case and a REPEAT of earlier statements.
This kind of lack of judgement does not even fly in communist china courts let alone in the democratic world - Not related to the case
All police in all countries cannot be trusted, do not make it as if singapore police are heavenly beings, thats why there are courts to make sure that the police and state can prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt - Yes and the DPP proved his case beyond reasonable doubt and the Judge ruled. In agreement.
And that is the main problem with singapore legal system in that you are presumed guilty, in other countries its the other way around, in fact it should be the authorities be able to prove it. - FALSEHOOD, you are not presumed guilty, Prosecution has to prove beyond reasonable doubt, since we are talking about Criminal Offences. C/f Alexander Woon- Explainer: Are suspects ‘guilty until proven innocent’ under revised killer litter law and who bears the burden of proof?
You forgot about parti liyani? A simple search on the internet can show you multiple cases of police fabricating statement with some even forging the signatures of people of being charged - Not related to the case
Throwing wanton statements like this will just get you reprimanded. Contempt of court as well.
What's your evidence? Since you assert this, the onus is on you to prove it WITH REFERENCE to the facts of the case.

How do we know that it was not regret sex?
How to establish it when the questions was not asked in the first place?
Your wild accusations must be proved by the defendant. The prosecution has enough evidence to charge the defendant. The onus is then on the defendant lawyer to show that the prosecution does not have a case.

How does that prove that the women did not know what was going on and bapak said how can a woman not know she was raped for 7 years
How can someone not know they were being raped for 7 years? Why did the other women not make a police report?
In this case the other women did not make a police report, also she did not realize she was being raped for 7 years?
Where is the fairness? No court in this world would entertain any women who says she was raped for 7 years and did not know it
repeat

Penal Code 1871
Rape
375.—(1) Any man who penetrates the vagina of a woman with his penis —
(a) without her consent; or
(b) with or without her consent, when she is below 14 years of age,
shall be guilty of an offence.
(1A) Any man (A) who penetrates, with A’s penis, the anus or mouth of another person (B) —
(a) without B’s consent; or
(b) with or without B’s consent, when B is below 14 years of age,
shall be guilty of an offence.

This was the SG Statute, and in UK we don't say key word, we use the word Actus Reus and Mens Rea.
How do you establish the mental element? The woman just has to say she did not consent.

You said you studied UK law?
S.1 SOA 2003, which provides:

A person (A) commits and offence if -
He intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,
B does not consent to the penetration, and
A does not reasonably believe that B consents
Whether a belief is reasonable is to be determined having regard to all the circumstances, including the steps A has taken to ascertain whether B consents.

This basically destroys all your defences above. Did the man reasonably believe that the woman consented? Of course not, they were drugged, they were not aware it was not their husband. Did they do steps to ascertain consent? Again of course of not. Its rape, you don't get consent.
I know you will try to say there was consent, a woman enjoyed being screwed by different men for 7 years, and why there was no police report.
Again I have addressed the procedure as to how a case appears in front of the Judge. And no, a person does not have SOL for rape.

Consent-
S.1(2) SOA 2003 provides that regard should be had to all of the circumstances including those that the defendant has taken to ascertain whether the complainant has consented

R v Howard
R v Cooper; R v Schaub
R v Hysa
R v Braham

All the UK cases above are pertaining to consent, there is precedent and case law. You have cited the defence of consent, but the accused had confessed to the crime. So what is wrong with the judgement? Surely your counter cannot be, the confession is falsified? Lol. You have to prove the locus standi to say that.

I had fun mate, mooting is still as exciting now as it was in Law School. Could banter more, but I have a case to handle, but truely had fun. Will be good if you could use statute and case law to apply the law to the facts. That would make it more interesting.

P/s this is not part of my legal argument but, as reported. this is why some of the women did not know. How would you know if you were not conscious? and you cannot have your cake and eat it too, one min you claim the women knew of the sex, one minute you argue consent but was withdrawn via regret. "One woman was raped multiple times over at least seven years by different men while she was unconscious. This was while she was blindfolded and drugged by her own husband. Using the drug that he had obtained from J, K spiked his wife's alcohol sometime before 2012. He blindfolded his wife after she fell unconscious and told J to come over. In February 2013, J's wife said she was feeling sick, and J took this chance to give her the drug before letting K rape his wife.
There were pills, drugs. There were photos. There was a confession.
I don't find any issue with the judgement.

Case in point different jurisdiction, Justin Lee, yes there were women who were raped from nightclubs that they could not prove they were being drugged, but overall, there was still enough evidence to say they were drugged and raped those he was convicted for. https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2013/09/04/2003571304

[Suharto]

basically you are selling old wine


Bapak prefer bintang beer, not wine :D

So let me establish the following things.
1. You have no authority to cast doubt on the Singapore police


Why? You have had instances where your police have falsified confessions before some even on an mass industrial scale, so who would trust them

2. You have no authority to cast doubt on the Singapore Legal System
I am sure, at this junction, you will agree.

No i do not agree, that was what the judge did when he struck down parti liyani conviction, truthfully bapak finds singapore legal system a joke.

I honestly say this because, none of your arguments will even be accepted in court.


Bapak's argument was already accepted in the US court of law, bapak's client was given a plea deal of probation down from 20 years, so it has been tried and tested :D

Maybe in Indo this kind of professionalism will fly, but certainly not in Singapore.

Ofcourse will never fly in singapore as singapore mainly only have show trials in indonesia the case won't even reach the muncipal police station let alone the courts

The officers at the police station will laugh sampai pengsan if they see such a case

this is not factual, so you would need to get an expert witness to say, that is is the norm. As per my experience, this is not true.
I am no doctor, but OTF, this is not true. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/discharge-after-sex


No problem, according to

https://patient.info/sexual-health/vaginal-discharge-female-discharge

"Some women are aware that they get small amounts of vaginal discharge for a day or two after sex"

The information is posted by EMIS Group PLC, they are a publicly listed company in London and supplier of patient software systems to the NHS for the Government of the United Kingdom Of Great Britain

Expert enough for you :D

There were reports, and that's how basic legal prosecution works. There must be a charge, and then it works its way into the courts. There is no SOL for rape


According to the report, only 1 woman made a police report, the rest did not, thats why they needed the confession

This was the SG Statute, and in UK we don't say key word, we use the word Actus Reus and Mens Rea.


Maaf kawan, in the UK, US where i have law firms there is something called jury trials, in the UK, if the sentence being faced is more than 6 months they have a right to jury trials when bapak argue in front of jury trial must use words that normal people understand else they think bapak being uppity :D

Singapore is different because jury trials were did away and replaced with a communist like tribunal so that those accused have no recourse and have to accept their fate even if they are innocent, its almost like a north korean style court system in singapore

The woman just has to say she did not consent.

True, but under the Magistrates Courts Act of 1980 in the UK, criminal proceedings must commence within six months of the offence being commited, due note although the UK has no law time limit the AG in the UK will never entertain anything above 2/3 years as forensics and etc will become sketchy but its a case by case basis

That being said this is 7 years? No court in the UK or its territories will even entertain it because for 1 it will be impossible to setup a rape kit and the prosecution case will collapse even before going to court

This basically destroys all your defences above.

No it does not because as the firstly the police will never lodge a report as the case is 7 years old plus no one on this planet except maybe singapore will believe this woman did not know she was raped for 7 years.

Did the man reasonably believe that the woman consented?

She could have because after all she did not complain for 7 years so maybe he thought she consented, hence why all the other women did not make police reports only she did

Of course not, they were drugged

How you know they were drugged? Because women do not lie and tell the truth always :D

If no toxicology report, then who sold them the drug, did the police find the seller? Did he confirm he sold it to him? If the answer is all no, prosecution will turn into laughing stock in the court.


woman enjoyed being screwed by different men for 7 years, and hence there was no police report

No what bapak is trying to say is some couples enjoy swinging and they are fully aware of it, so in this case what is to make sure the woman is not making up the story out of spite for her man for other unknown reasons?

Remember the doctor yeo story, where the woman said the doctor molest her and it was found out he was innocent later on and acquitted? she even said there were 2 witnesses, end of the day the clinic cctv saved him as the cctv showed the witnesses were not there at all. And what did your AGC do to the lying woman nothing, in any other country she would be headed to prison for perjury


Again I have addressed the procedure as to how a case appears in front of the Judge

What you have addressed is how a case goes before a communist tribunal like singapore not like a real court in US/UK or even indon where bapak is :D

but I have a case to handle, but truely had fun

Better hope bapak never argue in court against you else your kepala pusing :D

There was a confession. I don't find any issue with the judgement.

Most communist sympathisers also will not find anything wrong with the judgement but bapak is democratic man that believe in democratic values :eek:

[Shadow_warrior]

Bapak prefer bintang beer, not wine :D



Why? You have had instances where your police have falsified confessions before some even on an mass industrial scale, so who would trust them



No i do not agree, that was what the judge did when he struck down parti liyani conviction, truthfully bapak finds singapore legal system a joke.



Bapak's argument was already accepted in the US court of law, bapak's client was given a plea deal of probation down from 20 years, so it has been tried and tested :D



Ofcourse will never fly in singapore as singapore mainly only have show trials in indonesia the case won't even reach the muncipal police station let alone the courts

The officers at the police station will laugh sampai pengsan if they see such a case



No problem, according to

https://patient.info/sexual-health/vaginal-discharge-female-discharge

"Some women are aware that they get small amounts of vaginal discharge for a day or two after sex"

The information is posted by EMIS Group PLC, they are a publicly listed company in London and supplier of patient software systems to the NHS for the Government of the United Kingdom Of Great Britain

Expert enough for you :D



According to the report, only 1 woman made a police report, the rest did not, thats why they needed the confession



Maaf kawan, in the UK, US where i have law firms there is something called jury trials, in the UK, if the sentence being faced is more than 6 months they have a right to jury trials when bapak argue in front of jury trial must use words that normal people understand else they think bapak being uppity :D

Singapore is different because jury trials were did away and replaced with a communist like tribunal so that those accused have no recourse and have to accept their fate even if they are innocent, its almost like a north korean style court system in singapore



True, but under the Magistrates Courts Act of 1980 in the UK, criminal proceedings must commence within six months of the offence being commited, due note although the UK has no law time limit the AG in the UK will never entertain anything above 2/3 years as forensics and etc will become sketchy but its a case by case basis

That being said this is 7 years? No court in the UK or its territories will even entertain it because for 1 it will be impossible to setup a rape kit and the prosecution case will collapse even before going to court



No it does not because as the firstly the police will never lodge a report as the case is 7 years old plus no one on this planet except maybe singapore will believe this woman did not know she was raped for 7 years.



She could have because after all she did not complain for 7 years so maybe he thought she consented, hence why all the other women did not make police reports only she did



How you know they were drugged? Because women do not lie and tell the truth always :D

If no toxicology report, then who sold them the drug, did the police find the seller? Did he confirm he sold it to him? If the answer is all no, prosecution will turn into laughing stock in the court.




No what bapak is trying to say is some couples enjoy swinging and they are fully aware of it, so in this case what is to make sure the woman is not making up the story out of spite for her man for other unknown reasons?

Remember the doctor yeo story, where the woman said the doctor molest her and it was found out he was innocent later on and acquitted? she even said there were 2 witnesses, end of the day the clinic cctv saved him as the cctv showed the witnesses were not there at all. And what did your AGC do to the lying woman nothing, in any other country she would be headed to prison for perjury




What you have addressed is how a case goes before a communist tribunal like singapore not like a real court in US/UK or even indon where bapak is :D



Better hope bapak never argue in court against you else your kepala pusing :D



Most communist sympathisers also will not find anything wrong with the judgement but bapak is democratic man that believe in democratic values :eek:

Did you read your own article? It doesn't say much different from mine.
The small nugget of evidence to evince your assertion- Some women are aware that they get small amounts of vaginal discharge for a day or two after sex. If the man 'comes' (ejaculates) inside the vagina, most of his semen will leave the vagina as a vaginal discharge unless he used a condom. There will also be fluid that the glands of the vagina make during sex.
Your statement "so bapak asks the question why the woman did not realize she had vaginal discharge for certain periods for past 7 years?"
Must there be? was there condoms used? Don't know. Do ALL WOMEN have this? No your own article that you claim is an authority says SOME WOMEN, is some women ALL WOMEN. And your article smacks a whole lot of ifs, and requirements. And even with discharge, your own article says it can be due to other factors besides sex. Lol. My point proven.

haha thanks I would have to cross swords with you. Again wish you had statutes and case law instead of wild statements you cannot prove
A judge, will have to rule by case law and precedent.
I would love to see you in UK courts or Singapore courts throwing out things about Singapore Govt, Police, Judges, China, and all the fun things you mentioned. I would say, the word falsehood sounds strong in your statements.

The way the men were convicted has fulfilled the statutory and legislative process.

I will still say your so called defence is weak like anything, and the report states what they found. You have created ZERO, no evidence to prove your allegations on any grounds. I also don't like the fact that you did not addressed the statute and the case laws that form the guiding light to how the sentence is meted out.

There is no SOL for rape, so you harping on 7 years, holds no water. And you have never addressed the statutory requirements of rape as I posted, instead muddled it more. We are in court, sparring over the law, and Parliament's statute is sovereign. SOA says There must be consent, and there are requirements, if not its rape, its that simple. There was no consent.
If you claim there was, prove it. 7 years of not lodging a report? That's your so called prove? She was drugged. Again you ask, how do you know? The photos, text, videos, will prove this happened. There was a confession as to when, who they bought it from. There are dates.
Let me give you a scenario you can understand, a kid if raped by the dad since 5 years old, 10 years later, the man is charged, and the rape stops when the girl was 12. Again, can we say, 7 years, why no report? The girl did not know it was wrong, or she was conflicted, or she was scared. Many reasons, just a mere statement, no report, does that mean there was no rape? It was consensual? Foolhardy arguments.
Another situation, a patient with brain damage is bed ridden is raped by the male nurses. It never got discovered, because the patient was not able to speak. There is a confession, CCTV footage recovered, semen found in the lady, on the lady's clothes, photos of the man raping the woman, messages to other people that he did do this. Are you going to say the rape confession was forced? That it was consensual, that there is no rape kit etc... As my late lecturer used to say all the time, it depends on the time it was discovered. It could be discovered years, or decades later. Isn't it myopic to think that the rape happened today, the semen is still in the person, so we use a rape kit. We must have a report, in a certain time frame, otherwise its not admissible. If drugs were used, we must drug test you, and the report must show. Case in point, did Amanda and Schooling not test clean? But were they guilty of drug offences? Albeit they were not charged. They admitted to it. Was it forced?

Consent can be withdrawn at any time, as long as it is clearly communicated. Consent cannot be coerced or compelled by force, threat, deception or intimidation. Consent cannot be given by someone who is incapacitated
You want to say there was no drugs? You want to say there was consent? PROVE IT. Certainly the defendants had no defence along those lines.

Are there no cases as such, where kids were molested and only came to be aware of it later when they were adults? Did the accused escape the law due to a lack mere rape kits? Hahaha. Again, Lol. The women did not know what happened. How to lodge a police report if you do not know? Again SOL is not applicable. There is no law that says you cannot pursue justice for rape, even if it happened a long time ago. When they found out, through the phones, text, photos, they did lodge the required reports, hence this case went to court.
As mentioned there is more to evidence then the mere few points you mentioned. There is a confession, that means, they admit they did it. Try, please, I am laughing, to tell the courts, the confession was forced.
I pointed to many a UK case law that would guided the judge to what they should pass as sentence. Since you claim you are read in UK law.
I put it to you, that many rape cases did not have a rape kit, did not have a drug test. The event could have happened a long time ago, when the child was small. perhaps the rape victim was killed and the body was found much later. In those events, you cannot use your so called reasons to conclude, no test- no rape. There are, as I alluded in earlier, other ways the courts reach the conclusion. And here, we have photos, videos, text, confessions. We have the defence lawyer, NOT ONE alluded to your rediculous statements or defences. Lol...Sorry its simply mind boggling. They pleaded guilty. Again, there ARE POLICE REPORTS, it does not magically appear in court, it goes through the proper legal requirements.

No judge will accept your post evidence statement that was consent, and the confession was forced. Baseless allegations.

Mr Bapak, like I said, it was fun. Yes, if we are ever in court, I doubt so, I have never been called to a kangeroo courts. I would love to see you argue your points. Indo courts are like this? Oh God. I can speak for UK courts, SG courts, my thoughts, piecemeal stuff at best. Again I love sparring on the law, don't enjoy the wanton talks about democracy, communism and what not. You are asked a legal problem, stick to the facts. thats how you get a first class honours.

[Hurricane88]

Not sure why two seniors cross swords here when already meted out the sentence...:)

I dun trust Police and niether do I trust Politicians...moreover I dun trust anything written here...:)

Everything is done an dusted...:)

[Shadow_warrior]

Not sure why two seniors cross swords here when already meted out the sentence...:)

I dun trust Police and niether do I trust Politicians...moreover I dun trust anything written here...:)

Everything is done an dusted...:)

Nothing surprising about moots on the law, its part of what those who read the law do. Its actually quite fun.

Yes, why trust anything, that's exactly what this Indo Lawyer has said.

And yes, its sentenced, and my assertion is that it was fair, just and right. His assertion was, it was a kangeroo court and he questioned the integrity of the judgement, the women, the police, the entire process.

So on that note, yes, we are in agreement, it was already cast in stone.

But then again, like I allured to, all in good fun. Filing papers can get mundane and when someone puts up an interesting assertion with nuanced allegations, its just fun to have a banter.

[Hurricane88]

Nothing surprising about moots on the law, its part of what those who read the law do. Its actually quite fun.

Yes, why trust anything, that's exactly what this Indo Lawyer has said.

And yes, its sentenced, and my assertion is that it was fair, just and right. His assertion was, it was a kangeroo court and he questioned the integrity of the judgement, the women, the police, the entire process.

So on that note, yes, we are in agreement, it was already cast in stone.

But then again, like I allured to, all in good fun. Filing papers can get mundane and when someone puts up an interesting assertion with nuanced allegations, its just fun to have a banter.

Anyone can say anything and is up to him...be it Kangaroo court and so on...who cares and bothers...why did he bother to comment...:)

Also not his country and law...anyone who commit a crime or felony in any country and if caught will face the consequences...:)

Argue for what...so free ha...:)

[Shadow_warrior]

Anyone can say anything and is up to him...be it Kangaroo court and so on...who cares and bothers...why did he bother to comment...:)

Also not his country and law...anyone who commit a crime or felony in any country and if caught will face the consequences...:)

Argue for what...so free ha...:)

On that note, I share this case with you. Some famous Model Agency director. He was caught molesting a girl in a pub, she was drunk. There was CCTV
He later claimed, there was consent. Video said it was otherwise.
Then he said, he was gay, then he tried to plead insanity, and in IMH, he took out a fake gun. All the kind of ridiculous pattern lah, like someone has been saying.
The Judge threw out all his antics, and sentenced him. He was released already. Lol, and some of the influencers are under his agency.

[AlejandroSosa]

Also not his country and law...anyone who commit a crime or felony in any country and if caught will face the consequences...:)

Argue for what...so free ha...:)

Problem is you have the police in singapore making up alot of false stories.

Abit on my background, i graduated from NUS and am called to the bar in singapore and am a senior partner in a law practice here, although i have now migrated to australia, but in the past i used to practice law in singapore.

In my personal experience with cases i have dealt with and those that i have done pro bono for a lot of criminal cases.

In my career here in singapore, i have atleast seen 15 to 20 instances in which the confessions from criminals were coerced, where criminals ask for lawyers to be present to read their confessions (as they were uneducated) and were denied. Each time i have managed to throw out the confessions in court in singapore, its utterly disgusting what the police in singapore and the AGC does in singapore as they simply seem to be pinning crimes on innocent victims just to close the cases knowing these people cannot afford lawyers to fight for them.

One particular story that stuck to me till to this day that i did pro bono was a person that was accused of a crime here in singapore, the police made up the entire story of him being involved, end of the day the prosecutor case collapsed in court and made an offer of a light fine, no jail. The prosecutor witness was basically a convict who tried to get his sentence reduced and the police colluded with him to pin blame on an innocent person.

I had an argument with the DPP and even told him off privately outside the court that its disgusting to blame innocent people of crimes they did not commit, you know what the DPP told me, we have too many cases, i have no idea who is guilty or not, i am just seeing what sticks, that to me is horrifically disgusting

One thing that really irks me the most is that when i was practicing law in singapore, i had to go to the lockups to meet my clients and it seems that in singapore most of the people there are of minority race (non chinese), and although i am chinese of hokkien descent myself i found it horrifically disgusting when it seems clear to me that the police seem to be blaming crimes on minority races by fabricating stories which is not right at all. Singapore prisons are starting to look like Nazi concentration camps.

The chief justice also knows what is going on in singapore hence he appointed a team to look into the degradation of ethics of lawyers here, he was mainly pointing to the DPPs whom have had many of their cases collapse in court due to fabricated evidences by the police and etc

https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/chief-justice-sets-group-lawyers-moral-centre-troubling-rise-professional-breaches-2086186#:~:text=%E2%80%9CIt's%20important%20to%20n ote%20that,lawyers%20to%20do%20the%20same.%E2%80%9 D

There have also been instances where i suspect the police might be in the pocket of rival syndicate members because it seems weird to me why certain syndicate members are raided constantly while others can continue their illicit businesses with impunity, i even know of a police man in singapore where he says to me he cannot even go to holiday in JB, thailand or indonesia as "rivals" will take him out there, i asked him what he meant? He said sometimes certain policemen were part of the cliques themselves. Now this is not uncommon and there have a few of such cases as well where members of the police were gang members themselves (see news articles below)

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/cop-who-was-a-senior-gang-member-and-headman-of-a-motorcycle-gang-gets-1-year

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/police-officer-admits-member-two-secret-societies-090400425.html#:~:text=A%20police%20officer%20plea ded%20guilty,headman%20of%20a%20biker%20gang.&text=Umar%20Hassan%2C%2038%2C%20pleaded%20guilty,m ember%20of%20an%20unlawful%20society.

This is why after a while i left singapore and now only practice in australia, such things do not happen in australia, judges will never allow such things to happen there, police dept there will go to jail if they fabricate stories, dpps wil be demoted, but singapore things go on as normal hence why no one respects singapore lawyers anymore in the world

I really am happy i am out of singapore and stay in australia now, its really scary to stay in singapore where police can just arrest you on fabricated confessions and courts convict you on that, that will never happen in australia, if it did the police would have to pay damages in the millions of dollars

This is why when i now have clients in australia who want to invest in singapore, i tell them not too as the legal system is untrustworthy and their investments is not safe as they can be accused of anything on whim

[coolmanspooky]

On that note, I share this case with you. Some famous Model Agency director. He was caught molesting a girl in a pub, she was drunk. There was CCTV
He later claimed, there was consent. Video said it was otherwise.
Then he said, he was gay, then he tried to plead insanity, and in IMH, he took out a fake gun. All the kind of ridiculous pattern lah, like someone has been saying.
The Judge threw out all his antics, and sentenced him. He was released already. Lol, and some of the influencers are under his agency.

I love the crossing of swords...i am like popping in popcorns waiting to read the next sequel :p

[Hurricane88]

Problem is you have the police in singapore making up alot of false stories.


I really am happy i am out of singapore and stay in australia now, its really scary to stay in singapore where police can just arrest you on fabricated confessions and courts convict you on that, that will never happen in australia, if it did the police would have to pay damages in the millions of dollars


I dun trust any country Police be it Aussie Police...one of the most racist country...:)

I am happy for you....pls stay there and never come back...:)

[Suharto]

Aussie Police...one of the most racist country...:)

Singapura sepuluh ganda lebih teruk, atas tunjuk baik, bawah semua busuk :D

Tanah orang melayu dirampas di singapura dan dijadikan hamba didalam tanah moyang mereka :eek:

Kesemua asia tenggara tahu perkara ini :eek:

Kerajaan singapura kaya kerana warga singapura ditipu dengan cukai sampai kebuluran, sedihnya :eek:

Siapa yang perkauma kesemua asia tenggaru tahu juga :D

Perkauman adalah dasar rasmi kerajaan singapura, kesemua asia tenggara tahu juga :D

Inilah kebenaran yang kesemua orang di singapura dan seluruh asia tenggara tahu :D

[lipe]

Pak Suharto,

Suggest we should keep politics out of this forum.

You know the nephew's post in Facebook broadcasted by one of his friend.

He received POFMA (For the Protection from Online Falsehoods and Manipulation Act. POFMA helps protect the Singapore public against online harm by countering the proliferation of online falsehoods). Plus fine - this to enhance our reputation as a Fine City.

All of us come here to enjoy sexual fantasy. Keep out the politics.

Do not let our Man In White to rain thunder on this site.

Peace.




Singapura sepuluh ganda lebih teruk, atas tunjuk baik, bawah semua busuk :D

Tanah orang melayu dirampas di singapura dan dijadikan hamba didalam tanah moyang mereka :eek:

Kesemua asia tenggara tahu perkara ini :eek:

Kerajaan singapura kaya kerana warga singapura ditipu dengan cukai sampai kebuluran, sedihnya :eek:

Siapa yang perkauma kesemua asia tenggaru tahu juga :D

Perkauman adalah dasar rasmi kerajaan singapura, kesemua asia tenggara tahu juga :D

Inilah kebenaran yang kesemua orang di singapura dan seluruh asia tenggara tahu :D

[lipe]

Pak Suharto

up you 19 points.

same sentiment.

Singapura sepuluh ganda lebih teruk, atas tunjuk baik, bawah semua busuk :D

[Hurricane88]

Singapura sepuluh ganda lebih teruk, atas tunjuk baik, bawah semua busuk :D



I didn't say I like the Singapore gahmen...seriously getting bad...but we have no choice till things change...:)

I am proud Singaporean...as I am freedom to live anywhere..:)

[Hurricane88]

Pak Suharto,

Suggest we should keep politics out of this forum.


Agreed with you.

[sammyboyfor]

I dun trust any country Police be it Aussie Police...one of the most racist country...:)

I am happy for you....pls stay there and never come back...:)

Law enforcement, police, media, judicial system.... NONE are above board anywhere in the world.

All do the bidding of those in power and spin the narrative to suit an agenda.

[Shadow_warrior]

Problem is you have the police in singapore making up alot of false stories.

Abit on my background, i graduated from NUS and am called to the bar in singapore and am a senior partner in a law practice here, although i have now migrated to australia, but in the past i used to practice law in singapore.

In my personal experience with cases i have dealt with and those that i have done pro bono for a lot of criminal cases.

In my career here in singapore, i have atleast seen 15 to 20 instances in which the confessions from criminals were coerced, where criminals ask for lawyers to be present to read their confessions (as they were uneducated) and were denied. Each time i have managed to throw out the confessions in court in singapore, its utterly disgusting what the police in singapore and the AGC does in singapore as they simply seem to be pinning crimes on innocent victims just to close the cases knowing these people cannot afford lawyers to fight for them.

One particular story that stuck to me till to this day that i did pro bono was a person that was accused of a crime here in singapore, the police made up the entire story of him being involved, end of the day the prosecutor case collapsed in court and made an offer of a light fine, no jail. The prosecutor witness was basically a convict who tried to get his sentence reduced and the police colluded with him to pin blame on an innocent person.

I had an argument with the DPP and even told him off privately outside the court that its disgusting to blame innocent people of crimes they did not commit, you know what the DPP told me, we have too many cases, i have no idea who is guilty or not, i am just seeing what sticks, that to me is horrifically disgusting

One thing that really irks me the most is that when i was practicing law in singapore, i had to go to the lockups to meet my clients and it seems that in singapore most of the people there are of minority race (non chinese), and although i am chinese of hokkien descent myself i found it horrifically disgusting when it seems clear to me that the police seem to be blaming crimes on minority races by fabricating stories which is not right at all. Singapore prisons are starting to look like Nazi concentration camps.

The chief justice also knows what is going on in singapore hence he appointed a team to look into the degradation of ethics of lawyers here, he was mainly pointing to the DPPs whom have had many of their cases collapse in court due to fabricated evidences by the police and etc

https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/chief-justice-sets-group-lawyers-moral-centre-troubling-rise-professional-breaches-2086186#:~:text=%E2%80%9CIt's%20important%20to%20n ote%20that,lawyers%20to%20do%20the%20same.%E2%80%9 D

There have also been instances where i suspect the police might be in the pocket of rival syndicate members because it seems weird to me why certain syndicate members are raided constantly while others can continue their illicit businesses with impunity, i even know of a police man in singapore where he says to me he cannot even go to holiday in JB, thailand or indonesia as "rivals" will take him out there, i asked him what he meant? He said sometimes certain policemen were part of the cliques themselves. Now this is not uncommon and there have a few of such cases as well where members of the police were gang members themselves (see news articles below)

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/cop-who-was-a-senior-gang-member-and-headman-of-a-motorcycle-gang-gets-1-year

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/police-officer-admits-member-two-secret-societies-090400425.html#:~:text=A%20police%20officer%20plea ded%20guilty,headman%20of%20a%20biker%20gang.&text=Umar%20Hassan%2C%2038%2C%20pleaded%20guilty,m ember%20of%20an%20unlawful%20society.

This is why after a while i left singapore and now only practice in australia, such things do not happen in australia, judges will never allow such things to happen there, police dept there will go to jail if they fabricate stories, dpps wil be demoted, but singapore things go on as normal hence why no one respects singapore lawyers anymore in the world

I really am happy i am out of singapore and stay in australia now, its really scary to stay in singapore where police can just arrest you on fabricated confessions and courts convict you on that, that will never happen in australia, if it did the police would have to pay damages in the millions of dollars

This is why when i now have clients in australia who want to invest in singapore, i tell them not too as the legal system is untrustworthy and their investments is not safe as they can be accused of anything on whim

Prior to reading the law, I studied Accounting down under for 4 years.

Nice place, racist like hell. had eggs thrown at me, had so many classmates beat up, during the Pro Pauline Hanson days, asians had to endure so much abuse even being shouted slanty eye chink by small 5 year old kids.

Prima facie, we are talking about the orgy case, and there has been a challenge the legality of the judgement, and evidence at hand, questioning the police, the judiciary, the witness, statements, confession.

Is there anything that even smells that these women were not raped?

Perhaps you will quote your experience. I have will mine. I will disagree that the legal system in Singapore is as bad as you say. Recently, 2 police officers were taken to task for fabricating evidence. A lawyer who handled LKY will was taken to task. One cannot say, the legal system is broken- NO ONE is taken to task, and yet when the people who have been charged, and sentenced, we then switch our stance, and say its politically driven. Anyone who works for any company in any profession, trade, will be disillusioned by what they see, we just move on, do what we need to do, and accept what we cannot change. That's just life. Were there not cases, that the Judge was totally wrong? Did you not defend people who should not be defended? Was there cases where you winning means the other party, and some truely morally right and decent, and correct, people would lose? Didn't you just do what you do, and accept your remuneration?
Miscarriage of justice, is Law 101, first day law school, do LSM, Public Law they tell you right off the bat. Is moral justice and legal justice on the same page? When a murderer not get life, because his counsel is a senior lawyer, former judge and the DPP is a freshie, is there justice? This is the way the cookie crumbles. Its called life. We do us, fight the battles, lick our wounds and we go back into battle.

However, there has nothing to do with this case, and I do not see any relation to what we are mooting on. I have gone on the angle of a law problem question, out of sheer fun and argued it via statute, case law. Not sure why the foreign proclaimed lawyer can't apply the law to the facts, but have to cite lots irrelevant questions, bad examples. Honestly, was that how law school was passed?

The men were sentenced, the women didn't get justice. Their better halves fulfilled a fetish and sold their wives whom they contracted to protect and love for the fulfillment of their desires.

Lets examine the flawed arguments by the Indo lawyer. He said, no rape kit, he said how do we know they were drugged, he said, how do we know there was no consent, and discharge and what not, no police report at the point Besides the irrelevant issues. Let's examine the law.
My local reference here, since my UK case law he ignored.
https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/man-35-sentenced-over-7-months-jail-receiving-sexual-act-underaged-girl-2169096
The victim met Sim’s friend Eng Rong Qiang online and they agreed to have sex in exchange for money, which court documents said she planned to spend on gaming credits.
Was there consent? yes, but statute under Children and Young Persons Act protects minors. So I applied statute to the orgy case.
The girl’s mother only lodged a police report about the incident about a year later on March 18 in 2021, after she discovered her daughter had been having sex with Eng while browsing through her mobile phone.
So based on his logic, the report was not timely, so therefore there is reason to suspect it was not rape but consensual for the orgy case? Its called statutory rape. And its called this, because its meant to protect those who need protecting or are vulnerable. This report was 1 year later, was there physical examination e.g a rape kit? Was there consent? Browsing through the phone she found evidence that was used to prosecute the defendant. Isn't that how the men in the orgy were prosecuted? Is the confession now going to be forced and the SG police blamed here again? Or the Judge should be questioned?

All govt talk, and irrelevant issues, are not contentious with regards to the case at hand. Like other bros have mentioned, there is no perfect system. Did the SAS in Australia execute men in the Conflict zone for fun? Isn't there a diction test as far as 1970s, that turns non speakers of English, Non White, away, a diction test that no one can read, as an act of prejudice against race? Isn't Pauline hanson's ex right hand man the first man to start the white supremacy movement down under?

Good luck down under, I am thinking of moving to wealth management and hedge funds, given the high number of home offices that open here and there are Huge Groups of China Fund Managing companies that have started up over the years.

To those who have a stake here, live here, its home, so letting others question where you live, as a pretext to a entirely different case- orgy, should not be something we stand for. Any bro here believes that INDO courts are better than SG courts? that the system, political, legal, judiciary, executive is better than SG? Lol... Where do the chinese stand in Indonesia, why do they park their money in SG? Back to mooting about the orgy case, and any other non related issues of the system, the profession, and what not, I am out of that discussion. I am sure the other bros not in the legal profession who were here to talk about the orgy case would like to get back to the case. That's actually the fun of this forum, the discussion.

[Shadow_warrior]

I didn't say I like the Singapore gahmen...seriously getting bad...but we have no choice till things change...:)

I am proud Singaporean...as I am freedom to live anywhere..:)

Hooya bro, this is something I agree.

If we have enough money, the whole world is your home. Best statement of the day.

[coolmanspooky]

Hooya bro, this is something I agree.

If we have enough money, the whole world is your home. Best statement of the day.

With a passport that can travel almost everywhere lol...

[Shadow_warrior]

With a passport that can travel almost everywhere lol...

true, I mean there is a reason why the most wealthy come to this rediculously small island and become citizens. They could go down under, the most sparsely populated continent or to other asian countries, but these tycoons want SG citizenship.

That says something was done right. But with money, I would go anyway too, just hold unto the citizenship

[fnulnu99]

Agree with this statement totally. Hold on to the passport, hold on to the strong SG currency.

Retire to neighborly countries to stretch the dollar and enjoy the cheap & young pussies :D



That says something was done right. But with money, I would go anyway too, just hold unto the citizenship

[ChairmanMao]

Isn't Pauline hanson's ex right hand man the first man to start the white supremacy movement down under?


Was it not a PAP MP who made a racist remark in parliament?

[
During the 1991 general election, Choo contested in Jalan Besar GRC and won by an uncontested walkover. In March 1992, Choo caused a controversy when he made a remark in Parliament about driving through Little India and finding the neighbourhood in "complete darkness", "not because there was no light, but because there were too many Indians around there".[3] This had led to calls for his resignation.[4] Choo later apologised, calling his remark a "joke"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choo_Wee_Khiang
]

What about Denise Phua another PAP currently?

[
MP Denise Phua apologises for describing large crowds at Little India as 'walking time-bombs'.

https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/mp-denise-phua-apologises-describing-large-crowds-little-india-walking-time-bombs
]

Or

PAP MP Seng Han Thong blaming MRT breakdown in Singapore on malay employees

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/amk-mp-defends--broken-english--comments-on-tv.html

or

[
PAP youth wing member Jason Neo, 30, made a racist Facebook post of a picture of a bus carrying Malay kindergarten children. He later apologised and quit the party

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/yp-member-resigns-over-insensitive-remark.html
]

I can go on and on but it seems to me that Pak Suharto is right in that the racism in singapore is perpetuated by the regime itself against the minorities unlike in aussie where its by a few fringe people and not perpetuated by the australia state

Good luck down under, I am thinking of moving to wealth management and hedge funds, given the high number of home offices that open here and there are Huge Groups of China Fund Managing companies that have started up over the years.

Those are mainly money washing operations setup by the family offices, i do alot of business in china as i work in a foreign bank here in sg. We have rejected their businesses as we are afraid of united states treasury sanctions, 1 sanction from them and you won't be able to even top up your ezlink card, lol

Alot of money is leaving singapore as these money launderers realize that the DOJ and others have blacklisted money from singapore. When we transfer money to new york in the past, it was easy now we have to indulge in KYC or get fined by the DOJ

As of last month 22B in deposits left SG shores, there is no money coming in, its leaving

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-04-28/singapore-says-foreign-residents-deposits-fell-by-s-22-billion

Where do the chinese stand in Indonesia, why do they park their money in SG?


Those with legitimate money from indonesia usually run to aussie or nz, those with coorrupted money run to singapore as ATO in australia will fine the daylights of you if are caught washing cash for indo criminals.

ATO also now blacklists money from singapore if you cannot explain its origin ever since the bhp case where it was caught of tax evasion and hiding cash in sg

https://thewest.com.au/business/mining/bhp-makes-528m-deal-with-ato-over-singapore-marketing-ng-b881025824z

Now the indonesia has an extradition treaty with sg so the corrupted officials have fled. Many of them were corrupt like djoko

https://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2009/06/25/fugitive-djoko-tjandra-singapore-ago.html

true, I mean there is a reason why the most wealthy come to this rediculously small island and become citizens. They could go down under, the most sparsely populated continent or to other asian countries, but these tycoons want SG citizenship.


That is because no sane goverment in the would give citizenship to corrupt official and criminals, remember the indian millionaire from india that bought the hotel? He was actually a member of the mumbai mafia and was killer wanted in india and was caught hiding in singapore for 10 years

He was washing all the illicit money from india in singapore

https://m.timesofindia.com/city/mumbai/handler-of-chhota-rajans-finances-deported-from-singapore/articleshow/99596752.cms

In singapore you have MLs and even prostitutes having prs, it seems like ICA have completely lost their minds, no country would give prostitutes prs

https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/6-women-fined-orchard-towers-sex-services-1971626

I would go anyway too, just hold unto the citizenship

If you are born here its fine, but if not the singapore passport is worthless like the antigua case. In the past PRCs used to buy antigua passport via its investment scheme and after a while countries started saying those newly minted antigua passports are not recognized

https://antiguaobserver.com/ab-passport-holders-react-to-canada-revoking-visa-free-entry/

Same thing now the newly mint PRC singapore citizens are realizing.

Next week i am going china and my visa done very fast but how come others got so much delay?

https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/we-queued-nothing-influencer-queues-china-visa-4am-170-people-front-told-go-home-5-hours

https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/man-turns-3am-apply-chinese-visa-finds-over-100-people-ahead-him-queue

The reason is simple, those are newly minted PRC citizens with singapore citizenships who now realized that they cannot go back to china to visit their businesses and money, so they now realized that the singapore passport is worthless to them as the CCP just did a backdoor nationalization for these new singapore citizens from PRC

To end don't just parrot the regime in singapore propaganda, know what is going on, singapore might end up like panama where outside forces have to intervene as they were washing for cartels in the past

[coolmanspooky]

So many "world leaders" in my thread :p

[Shadow_warrior]

Was it not a PAP MP who made a racist remark in parliament?

[
During the 1991 general election, Choo contested in Jalan Besar GRC and won by an uncontested walkover. In March 1992, Choo caused a controversy when he made a remark in Parliament about driving through Little India and finding the neighbourhood in "complete darkness", "not because there was no light, but because there were too many Indians around there".[3] This had led to calls for his resignation.[4] Choo later apologised, calling his remark a "joke"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choo_Wee_Khiang
]

What about Denise Phua another PAP currently?

[
MP Denise Phua apologises for describing large crowds at Little India as 'walking time-bombs'.

https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/mp-denise-phua-apologises-describing-large-crowds-little-india-walking-time-bombs
]

Or

PAP MP Seng Han Thong blaming MRT breakdown in Singapore on malay employees

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/amk-mp-defends--broken-english--comments-on-tv.html

or

[
PAP youth wing member Jason Neo, 30, made a racist Facebook post of a picture of a bus carrying Malay kindergarten children. He later apologised and quit the party

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/yp-member-resigns-over-insensitive-remark.html
]

I can go on and on but it seems to me that Pak Suharto is right in that the racism in singapore is perpetuated by the regime itself against the minorities unlike in aussie where its by a few fringe people and not perpetuated by the australia state



Those are mainly money washing operations setup by the family offices, i do alot of business in china as i work in a foreign bank here in sg. We have rejected their businesses as we are afraid of united states treasury sanctions, 1 sanction from them and you won't be able to even top up your ezlink card, lol

Alot of money is leaving singapore as these money launderers realize that the DOJ and others have blacklisted money from singapore. When we transfer money to new york in the past, it was easy now we have to indulge in KYC or get fined by the DOJ

As of last month 22B in deposits left SG shores, there is no money coming in, its leaving

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-04-28/singapore-says-foreign-residents-deposits-fell-by-s-22-billion



Those with legitimate money from indonesia usually run to aussie or nz, those with coorrupted money run to singapore as ATO in australia will fine the daylights of you if are caught washing cash for indo criminals.

ATO also now blacklists money from singapore if you cannot explain its origin ever since the bhp case where it was caught of tax evasion and hiding cash in sg

https://thewest.com.au/business/mining/bhp-makes-528m-deal-with-ato-over-singapore-marketing-ng-b881025824z

Now the indonesia has an extradition treaty with sg so the corrupted officials have fled. Many of them were corrupt like djoko

https://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2009/06/25/fugitive-djoko-tjandra-singapore-ago.html



That is because no sane goverment in the would give citizenship to corrupt official and criminals, remember the indian millionaire from india that bought the hotel? He was actually a member of the mumbai mafia and was killer wanted in india and was caught hiding in singapore for 10 years

He was washing all the illicit money from india in singapore

https://m.timesofindia.com/city/mumbai/handler-of-chhota-rajans-finances-deported-from-singapore/articleshow/99596752.cms

In singapore you have MLs and even prostitutes having prs, it seems like ICA have completely lost their minds, no country would give prostitutes prs

https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/6-women-fined-orchard-towers-sex-services-1971626



If you are born here its fine, but if not the singapore passport is worthless like the antigua case. In the past PRCs used to buy antigua passport via its investment scheme and after a while countries started saying those newly minted antigua passports are not recognized

https://antiguaobserver.com/ab-passport-holders-react-to-canada-revoking-visa-free-entry/

Same thing now the newly mint PRC singapore citizens are realizing.

Next week i am going china and my visa done very fast but how come others got so much delay?

https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/we-queued-nothing-influencer-queues-china-visa-4am-170-people-front-told-go-home-5-hours

https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/man-turns-3am-apply-chinese-visa-finds-over-100-people-ahead-him-queue

The reason is simple, those are newly minted PRC citizens with singapore citizenships who now realized that they cannot go back to china to visit their businesses and money, so they now realized that the singapore passport is worthless to them as the CCP just did a backdoor nationalization for these new singapore citizens from PRC

To end don't just parrot the regime in singapore propaganda, know what is going on, singapore might end up like panama where outside forces have to intervene as they were washing for cartels in the past

haha not going to read your wall since I am here just for the legal discussion, just wanted to laugh out loud at your picture. Sorry wasted your time

First we have Indo Lawyer, and now Chairman Mao, sure you are not not clones registered one year after another? Are you also a lawyer from China with offices all over China? Seems both of you are anti SG, and have nothing to moot about the orgy case- what a waste.

LOL :D:D

[Shadow_warrior]

So many "world leaders" in my thread :p

Lol... I join you to eat popcorn, its not playing my show for sure. We watch the solo performance. You posted Orgy right? Thought that was the juicy bit :D:D

[BigDaddyJohnson]

Seems both of you are anti SG

Wanted to add some comment but it seems pointless because according to you anyone write anything critical about singapore means must be clone, this way the country will never improve

When you cannot defend your points means must be clone, when say anything bad about singapore must be clone, when say anything bad about PAP must be clone, say anything bad about the legal system must be clone, only you the righteous one you better just go kowtow at 38 oxley rise every morning better for you, you have no critical thought of your own

Thats why there is a mass exodus of educated singaporeans from singapore and all the singapore government can do is get villagers from PRC/India/Malaysia by giving them citizenship, i guess you must be one of those "new citizens" since you love the PAP so much :rolleyes:

[Shadow_warrior]

Wanted to add some comment but it seems pointless because according to you anyone write anything critical about singapore means must be clone, this way the country will never improve

When you cannot defend your points means must be clone, when say anything bad about singapore must be clone, when say anything bad about PAP must be clone, say anything bad about the legal system must be clone, only you the righteous one you better just go kowtow at 38 oxley rise every morning better for you, you have no critical thought of your own

Thats why there is a mass exodus of educated singaporeans from singapore and all the singapore government can do is get villagers from PRC/India/Malaysia by giving them citizenship, i guess you must be one of those "new citizens" since you love the PAP so much :rolleyes:

lol. again I am speed reading your statements, because it does not interest me at all, and you are talking to the wall.

I am not defending ALL points, mine were legal points, the rest made were irrelevant, so I will not say more. In law we say something is implied, care to moot on implied terms?

Just mused that so much effort is put in, and yes, I spotted, 10,11,12. Quite an interesting coincidence. Just amusing.

I am only keen to talk about the orgy and legal issues, but you continue on the solo performances. Get bored when someone needs to use derogatory language to discuss things. Politics, boring, did my LSM, Public Law in the first year, bored me to death. The ignore button is a great button to use, clicked it a few times tonight.

[SirLance]

Wow read for fun.

[ChairmanMao]

Are you also a lawyer from China with offices all over China?

No i am not a lawyer, i have no idea about law, i have zero knowledge about law at all. I already wrote in my first reply i work in a foreign bank with businesses in china, the bank and its clients have businesses in china, i got nothing in china, only have one pretty girl that rejects my advances towards here everytime, but i shall try again next week when i go to china :p

I commented only because you said you were interested in fund management so i just gave my view on it to you as i am in the banking industry so thought you might find it interesting, never meant to start a fight with you or am against anyone at all, sorry if you felt that in any way, apologies :o

[KongHuat]

I am not defending ALL points, mine were legal points

Sadly to say bro they are not, your legal statements are rudimentary at best, you already have been rebutted point by point by the indonesian running a us/uk law firm and the australian lawyer. Their legal points seem more valid and plausible in court than yours. Your legal points seem to be of a lower standard than that of interns i know, even chatgpt can have better answers than you, but that being said instead of challenging their legalistic views you simply go into a personal attack tirade against them which shows that you no longer have any valid counter points at this juncture, just shows your sub standard quality as a lawyer for all to see, i really pity your clients

Problem is you have the police in singapore making up alot of false stories.

In my career here in singapore, i have atleast seen 15 to 20 instances in which the confessions from criminals were coerced, where criminals ask for lawyers to be present to read their confessions (as they were uneducated) and were denied. Each time i have managed to throw out the confessions in court in singapore, its utterly disgusting what the police in singapore and the AGC does in singapore as they simply seem to be pinning crimes on innocent victims just to close the cases knowing these people cannot afford lawyers to fight for them

Actually i am retired police man in singapore, was in the CID, i actually know what you mean as personally in my dept there has been 5 officers sacked already for beating up accused people while in lockup and making them sign false confessions. So actually its more common than you think

Thats why even today in the news even the law minister himself said that the public trust in the police must be maintained, he knows the public is losing trust in police investigations as some police members seem to be cooking up stories during their investigations

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/watch/neutral-independent-police-needed-maintain-public-trust-shanmugam-video-3484996

But going back into the orgy story even as a former CID, i can already see too many holes in the women stories, my feeling tells me they might be lying, the accused should actually appeal their cases to a higher court and its very likely the convictions can be thrown out as it seems the women stories do not have any consistencies to them

[Neverlookback]

Problem is you have the police in singapore making up alot of false stories.

Abit on my background, i graduated from NUS and am called to the bar in singapore and am a senior partner in a law practice here, although i have now migrated to australia, but in the past i used to practice law in singapore.

In my personal experience with cases i have dealt with and those that i have done pro bono for a lot of criminal cases.

In my career here in singapore, i have atleast seen 15 to 20 instances in which the confessions from criminals were coerced, where criminals ask for lawyers to be present to read their confessions (as they were uneducated) and were denied. Each time i have managed to throw out the confessions in court in singapore, its utterly disgusting what the police in singapore and the AGC does in singapore as they simply seem to be pinning crimes on innocent victims just to close the cases knowing these people cannot afford lawyers to fight for them.

One particular story that stuck to me till to this day that i did pro bono was a person that was accused of a crime here in singapore, the police made up the entire story of him being involved, end of the day the prosecutor case collapsed in court and made an offer of a light fine, no jail. The prosecutor witness was basically a convict who tried to get his sentence reduced and the police colluded with him to pin blame on an innocent person.

I had an argument with the DPP and even told him off privately outside the court that its disgusting to blame innocent people of crimes they did not commit, you know what the DPP told me, we have too many cases, i have no idea who is guilty or not, i am just seeing what sticks, that to me is horrifically disgusting

One thing that really irks me the most is that when i was practicing law in singapore, i had to go to the lockups to meet my clients and it seems that in singapore most of the people there are of minority race (non chinese), and although i am chinese of hokkien descent myself i found it horrifically disgusting when it seems clear to me that the police seem to be blaming crimes on minority races by fabricating stories which is not right at all. Singapore prisons are starting to look like Nazi concentration camps.

The chief justice also knows what is going on in singapore hence he appointed a team to look into the degradation of ethics of lawyers here, he was mainly pointing to the DPPs whom have had many of their cases collapse in court due to fabricated evidences by the police and etc

https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/chief-justice-sets-group-lawyers-moral-centre-troubling-rise-professional-breaches-2086186#:~:text=%E2%80%9CIt's%20important%20to%20n ote%20that,lawyers%20to%20do%20the%20same.%E2%80%9 D

There have also been instances where i suspect the police might be in the pocket of rival syndicate members because it seems weird to me why certain syndicate members are raided constantly while others can continue their illicit businesses with impunity, i even know of a police man in singapore where he says to me he cannot even go to holiday in JB, thailand or indonesia as "rivals" will take him out there, i asked him what he meant? He said sometimes certain policemen were part of the cliques themselves. Now this is not uncommon and there have a few of such cases as well where members of the police were gang members themselves (see news articles below)

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/cop-who-was-a-senior-gang-member-and-headman-of-a-motorcycle-gang-gets-1-year

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/police-officer-admits-member-two-secret-societies-090400425.html#:~:text=A%20police%20officer%20plea ded%20guilty,headman%20of%20a%20biker%20gang.&text=Umar%20Hassan%2C%2038%2C%20pleaded%20guilty,m ember%20of%20an%20unlawful%20society.

This is why after a while i left singapore and now only practice in australia, such things do not happen in australia, judges will never allow such things to happen there, police dept there will go to jail if they fabricate stories, dpps wil be demoted, but singapore things go on as normal hence why no one respects singapore lawyers anymore in the world

I really am happy i am out of singapore and stay in australia now, its really scary to stay in singapore where police can just arrest you on fabricated confessions and courts convict you on that, that will never happen in australia, if it did the police would have to pay damages in the millions of dollars

This is why when i now have clients in australia who want to invest in singapore, i tell them not too as the legal system is untrustworthy and their investments is not safe as they can be accused of anything on whim


Based on the standard of english grammar and writing style you have applied here, i doubt you have ever been called to any bar than those serving (cheap) liquor.

My 12yo niece writes better than this.

Some in here may be naive enough to believe your fictitious background, but the way you write...mate...pull my other leg. Law clerk? Maybe. Legal assistant? Maybe. Senior partner? Heehaw heehaw, NFW

[Suharto]

the way you write...mate...pull my other leg. Law clerk? Maybe. Legal assistant? Maybe. Senior partner? Heehaw heehaw, NFW

How to pull your leg when you so obvious shadow_warrior clone, clones do not have legs :eek:

Your registration just 2 months ago only, balik tidur jangan buang masa rakyat, ini tempat
orang dewasa, pergi main di taman permainan jangan buang masa kita

[AnnieYJL]

What a terrible news! I'm not sure what I would have done if I had been the woman. Maybe I'll be able to forgive because a divorce might be the worst thing for our kids. There seems to be no use in pursuing them for the sake of our children as they have already committed the act. But given that he has previously betrayed my trust, I would say our relationship is over.

[KongHuat]

What a terrible news! I'm not sure what I would have done if I had been the woman

Very true, no one should do that to the people they love but there are people who engage in such activity (swinging, so they have knowledge of it)

Problem i think most of us have is that the story seems to be full of holes but i will reserve my judgement on it but personally, the story does not make sense to me at all as i find alot of inconsistencies in it especially the confession note, that for me seems quite fabricated

[coolmanspooky]

After reading all the posts...I must say that SG is not that bad as compared to other countries...Again, it is not the best as well...we all have our own opinions, let us agree to disagree and respect each other views. ;)

[Suharto]

I must say that SG is not that bad as compared to other countries

Depends which country you comparing to if singapore compare to north korea, afghanistan or somalia, then yes singapore is better

tapi

If you compare singapore to australia, new zealand, usa, norway, sweden and etc, singapura adalah satu gunung sampah
kerajaaan penipu yang suka rompak warga mereka sendiri

So depends who you compare to as well :D

[Shadow_warrior]

After reading all the posts...I must say that SG is not that bad as compared to other countries...Again, it is not the best as well...we all have our own opinions, let us agree to disagree and respect each other views. ;)

no worries bro. was just looking for a intellectual discussion on the report, using the IRAC framework and moot the issues.

Clicking ignore as much as needed, prima facie, this is not possible.

People who can hold their own debates, and arguments can do without the mud throwing and trying to at people's job, life, values. A discussion can be empowering but it depends on the class of the person, intellectual ability, and the ability to argue the points, and receive points as well.

So far, nothing seen on the above framework. Lots of wild claims and statements, and then personal. I don't go there, its pointless.

[AlejandroSosa]

Wanted to post this quick thought, i was having a discussion with a lawyer colleague of mine in australia and he commented that it seemed rather weird that the DPP did not subpoena the other female witnesses to corroborate the story (those that did not make a police report), could it be possibly that if the DPP had done that, the other women would have said they knew what was going on and that they were swingers instead, causing the prosecutor case to collapse?

Its something to think about and if their lawyer on appeal can get atleast one woman (that did not make a police report) to say she knew what was going on and was not a rape the entire conviction will be thrown out by the appellate court.

Once that happens the police, dpp and judge will have alot to answer how this was allowed to happen. I am starting to have doubts on the merits of this case as well

prima facie, this is not possible.

Don't just throw legal jargon if you have no idea what it means, if you really are a lawyer as you claim, i would think that you knew the basic facets of the law itself

A prima facie case might not stand or fall on its own; if an opposing party introduces other evidence or asserts an affirmative defense, it can be reconciled only with a full trial

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prima_facie

[AlejandroSosa]

Actually i am retired police man in singapore, was in the CID, i actually know what you mean as personally in my dept there has been 5 officers sacked already for beating up accused people while in lockup and making them sign false confessions. So actually its more common than you think

I already knew this in the past from my interactions with the police in singapore, it seems they really cannot be trusted. Its really sad that the singapore police had denigrated itself to this point, but thanks for sharing this

[Hurricane88]

If you compare singapore to australia, new zealand, usa, norway, sweden and etc, singapura adalah satu gunung sampah
kerajaaan penipu yang suka rompak warga mereka sendiri

So depends who you compare to as well :D

Pak, I support this statement...my gahmen now is on vendetta to rob us after spending 100 billion during Covid-19...:)

Eveything increase :-

GST Up
COE Up
S&C going up
Electricity up
Public transport goin up
food prices up
almost eveyrthing up

except salary hardly go up...:)

[Hurricane88]

Once that happens the police, dpp and judge will have alot to answer how this was allowed to happen. I am starting to have doubts on the merits of this case as well


I have doubts too...but then again already done and dusted...:)

Even the PM family cases many doubts...:)

[Senorita9876]

Pretty crazy case

[Ecuader]

In another country without strong women’s charters,
He might walk away Scot-free.

[bignehneh]

I am a chao beng when never study but probably fucked 1,000 over char bo including wives etc. After reading through so many pages, I still don’t know what the argument is about

(1) Got so many men kana charged for rape and reading from the news, they level is F high (Director, BD Manager). Their money all hire lj lawyers? So weak?

(2) Serious no rape? Then what went wrong? Wife agree to swinging with them then after a while suddenly cry rape? Swing then suddenly becomes unhappy?

Actually this kind of case is quite straight forward if I use my small head to think

(1) You song song offer wife to other ppl. All recorded in Skype and sibei difficult to defend

(2) Video itself is another an evidence. If it is swinging, you will see many positions like missionary, cowgirl, reverse cowgirl, doggy, lotus, 69 or simi lj move. For swinging couples, I quite sure the charbo very experience and got lots of pattern more than badminton. If this is a real rape case, probably you see the men just all doing missionary, or backentry etc and the woman will be there motionless. This kind of evidence even I use my cock head to think also sibei straight forward

Can bro lawyer and ex CID enlighten me. In a criminal case, the prosecution must prove its allegation that the accused has committed a crime. If it fails to discharge its burden of proof by failing to produce enough evidence of the accused’s guilt, even if the accused says nothing at all, theoretically, the prosecution should lose and the accused should be found “not guilty”.

If today a clown like me is rhe prosecutor, it is also quite straightforward with my above 2 points. If those 2 points are not valid, even a new bird lawyer can throw this kind of case out of the window.

Thanks ��

[TheIdesOfMarch]

In a criminal case, the prosecution must prove its allegation that the accused has committed a crime. If it fails to discharge its burden of proof by failing to produce enough evidence of the accused’s guilt, even if the accused says nothing at all, theoretically, the prosecution should lose and the accused should be found “not guilty”.

If today a clown like me is rhe prosecutor, it is also quite straightforward with my above 2 points. If those 2 points are not valid, even a new bird lawyer can throw this kind of case out of the window.

Thanks ��

It's actually more complicated than that.

YES, criminal prosecution, the prosecutor bears the burden of proving beyond reasonable doubt that the accused has committed a crime. HOWEVER, that threshold of "beyond reasonable doubt" varies for different kinds of crimes. For some, the threshold is very high. For some, the threshold is very low. This is why for example you see many murder charges get downgraded to manslaughter, because murder has one of the highest thresholds when it comes to burden of proof beyond reasonable doubt of guilt: you need to prove intent, not just that the accused killed someone.

The threshold is set by law statutes. So for instance using drug trafficking as an example, as long as they find more than a certain amount on you, the prosecutor can automatically assume that you intended to traffick even if you claim that you didn't. This is an example of a criminal charge with a low threshold of burden of proof for guilt beyond reasonable doubt. Some crimes under criminal law have zero nuance in interpretation; prosecutor cross the first barrier of proving beyond reasonable doubt can already. It's like sudden death.

Similarly in this current case, as long as any visual evidence is of the wives being fucked whilst senseless, it looks like rape, the guys will go down for rape. Even if somehow the wives involved were all aware of what's going on, consented to nonconsensual "drugged" sex (CNC, yes it is a thing, yes it is as morally and legally grey as you think), as long as in future one of them flip and regrets everything, before going to report that she got raped, all the men involved will go down for rape just on her words alone, let alone with visual evidence available. The assumption here is "senseless sex = nonconsensual sex" straight away.

Also, under SG legal system, silence equals presumption of guilt. The law is fundamentally tilted against defendants. If you say nothing against a prosecutor's accusations of you committing a crime, even if he's making up nonsense or seeking to convict you on the slimmest of evidence, your silence will help him cross the burden of proof threshold.

If I am wrong, let the other legal bros in here correct me.

P.S. if you want to read about it, here's a good academic article about it: https://www.jstor.org/stable/24866687

As expected of a legal academic article, it is VERY technical.

[bignehneh]

I don’t quite buy the idea of “consented to nonconsensual "drugged" sex”. Kana drugged means no consent mah? Of course a lot of cb kia lawyer will argue say “consented to nonconsensual "drugged" sex”. That is why I agree with the Singapore system. If can argue like that, then a lot of rape will happen on the pretext of “consented to nonconsensual "drugged" sex”. Machiam like clinical trial Ah. You sign consent form to give consent to yourself being drugged and sex? Or defence lawyer assumed that you drink something then knocked out cannot answer means “consent”? All these are groundless arguments

Those few clowns themselves know they got no case la. Their lawyers would have already advised them to own up and just accept the punishment?

[KongHuat]

I still don’t know what the argument is about


It seems that the argument is that they might have been falsely accused

Got so many men kana charged for rape and reading from the news, they level is F high (Director, BD Manager). Their money all hire lj lawyers? So weak?

I am not sure of the lawyers the other guys got, but i do know the firm from which the lawyer Mr Suang Wijaya works for. Its a budget law firm, low cost law firm with mainly school freshies, hence the dpp was not afraid, if it was an expensive seasoned lawyer, automatically 75% discount on the sentence and the dpp will not take the risk, thats what always happens when we referred cases to the AGC when i was at the CID.

They should just appeal the sentence at the appeals court, but this time get a pricier lawyer (although not all can afford it), but the dpp when seeing the lawyer's name, they will automatically know who they are dealing with and come back with a deal for you

Wife agree to swinging with them then after a while suddenly cry rape? Swing then suddenly becomes unhappy?


Thats what i suspect happen as well as this is my opinion as a former CID officer.

Usually the procedure at my side is that when a woman claims rape, we at the CID would recommend her to go for a medical test (its not compulsory in singapore), those usually that go usually are telling the truth, those that don't usually are hiding something from my experience and i have had atleast 25/30 cases in my career in the CID that women accused their husbands, boyfriends and etc and those that did not go for the medical review, all of them the accusations turned out to be lies.

There was one woman that was so bold that she even accused her own husband of raping her daughter, so that she could get a better divorce settlement. We found out only because when we sent the daughter to IMH for evaluation, the phycologist said there was no evidence of rape trauma in her report to the CID

You song song offer wife to other ppl. All recorded in Skype and sibei difficult to defend

Problem as the other lawyers pointed out, there was no medical report, no toxicology report only a video. But the video could have been a swinging video. Key is how can a woman not know she was raped for 7 years? Even a former officer like myself i find it too hard to believe.

If this is a real rape case, probably you see the men just all doing missionary, or backentry etc and the woman will be there motionless.

Problem is that when people have sex like on all porn websites, its all acting, so even as a police officer, i cannot be sure that they are not acting out a fetish as in sexual porn there is even rape fetish. So this is why i need the medical report to confirm it else the rape accusation is useless, their lawyer should have picked up on this part specifically. Plus why did the other women not make a police report? What did they know? Were they interviewed by the police? What was their statements? These are all the missing parts, which makes me think that they might have been falsely accused in this particular case.

theoretically, the prosecution should lose and the accused should be found “not guilty”.

Correct, thats why some police officers "beat" confessions out and also write false confessions simply to prevent the AGC from throwing the ball back to the CID. Basically after decades in the CID in singapore, we have the CID/police colluding with the AGC to fabricate stories simply to show that they are doing work.

There was once the famous lawyer subhas said atleast 50% of the criminals in singapore jails are actually innocent but in my opinion i put it at 70%. Even subhas himself was falsely accused and imprisoned, that was why he became a lawyer to fight the absolute corrupt justice system in singapore

even a new bird lawyer can throw this kind of case out of the window

Not really, these kinds of things take experience just like every other job in the world

Kana drugged means no consent mah?

This is why a toxicology report is important, else anyone can accuse you of rape. How do you quantify that a person is raped? Just because the person says so? These is where there has to be some physical evidence, which in this case seems rather lacking

One of the favourite ways the AGC in singapore likes to charge people is possession of porn on their computer/laptop/phone. When there is no evidence against an accused and the AGC wants to save their face and not look like clowns in court this is their default position.

But if you think about it if the police were to arrest with people with porn on their phone, whole of singapore will be in jail, so basically if someone is being charged with possession of porn, you can assume that the AGC/Police are trying to save their face as they have no evidence against an accused. They did this so many times when i was at the CID, alot of police officers including myself really felt uncomfortable as such things should not even happen in singapore. The entire justice system in singapore needs reform.

[lipe]

More details.

More to come : Oliver remains the last key in the puzzle. He is set to claim trial, and little is known about his full involvement because of that.


https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/wife-sharing-rape-cases-drugs-sex-network-victims-3471896

[lipe]

7 men, 1 depraved sex network: Unravelling the full story behind the wife-sharing drug rapes

CNA breaks down what exactly happened in the wife-sharing rapes that judges have called "one of the most astonishing and atrocious cases of sexual assault" in Singapore.

SINGAPORE: The man at the centre of a series of wife-swapping rapes was sentenced last week for multiple counts of abetting five other men to rape his wife, and for raping the wife and ex-wife of two accomplices.

What exactly happened in this labyrinthine saga? CNA unravels the threads to provide a fuller picture of the case.

Information for this article was gleaned from court hearings and papers. To prevent confusion, the men have been given pseudonyms rather than referring to them by the single letters used by the courts.

THE BEGINNING
In 2009, a young man who had just tied the knot about a year before was spending time on an explicit sex forum that would later yield court cases linked to all sorts of vice.

His online monikers contained a hint of what was to come: "CEJtz25", "Sick F***", "Tomwin25" and "Newbie2alltis".

The 27-year-old man - we’ll call him John - began engaging in sordid conversations in threads where men shared their wife-sharing fantasies.

The other men involved
All the men involved met each other online on Sammyboy forum as early as 2010, where they discussed wife-sharing fantasies, except for Patrick, who was roped in by his colleague Lionel.

Business developer Ken, now 45, a married man also known as stysg
Business development manager Lionel, now 54, a married man with three children

Company director Matt, now 46, a father of three who was living with his ex-wife

Food deliveryman Nick, also known as Jayden, now 38, a single man who was living with his father

Oliver, now 44, also known as Kelvin, Brad Chan, UMIST and Sorros

Patrick, now 48, a sales manager and Lionel’s colleague

In the secret threads they found online, the men eagerly discussed their common depraved interest – to watch other men use their wives.


John betrayed his wedding vows to his new wife, spilling to other strangers about their sex life and giving them explicit images and footage of his unsuspecting wife.

Soon, merely discussing the deviant acts was not enough. John tested the waters in real life. He showed his wife pornography of two men having sex with a woman, to see if she would be willing to participate in a threesome.

She scolded him and told him he was crazy, and John knew that his wife would not willingly – or consciously – participate in his schemes.

Instead of abandoning the idea, he began plotting with his online "friends" to sedate each others' wives so they could be raped.

First came Oliver, whom John met on a thread in explicit online forum Sammyboy where they talked about wife-sharing. The pair later agreed on a plan – Oliver was to approach John's wife, to see if she was faithful to John, or if she would have an affair and be interested to do "other things".


THE DRUGS
Between 2010 and 2011, John's wife told him that she was not feeling well. This sparked a devious act from John – the first of many that were to come, that formed his modus operandi. He pretended to give her medication but handed her a sedative instead.


John gave his wife a sedative on the pretext of giving her medicine.

The sedative used was dormicum sleeping pills. The idea of using dormicum came from an online discussion between John and Ken, when they agreed to sedate their wives so the other could rape her.

The drug was obtained from various sources. One of them was Lionel, who offered the pills to Ken, whom he had also met online in wife-sharing threads.

But instead of Ken, it was John who met Lionel – and Lionel later became one of the men who participated in the rapes of John's wife.

On another occasion, John procured his own drugs from an unknown seller in Geylang and drew from this stash over several incidents.


The 2010-2014 rapes
Sometime between 2010 and 2011, John drugged his wife and invited Oliver over to rape his wife. John watched, feeling a mixture of guilt and arousal.
After Matt learnt about the rape, he wanted to do it too. So John drugged his wife again so Matt could rape her while John took photos and a video.
Matt molested John's wife on a second occasion in 2011 after John spiked her wine with a drug.

In 2012, John gave Ken some dormicum to sedate Ken's wife. Ken had similarly asked his wife before if she would have sex with another man, and she had refused.

After Ken drugged his wife, John came over and raped her while Ken watched and took photos.

John raped Ken's wife a second time in 2012 in the same way. This time, Ken took a video of the acts and raped his own wife after John was done.

John raped Ken's wife a third time in 2013. That same year, he sedated his wife again so that Lionel could rape her while John took videos.

The videos were later disseminated and found in Nick's possession, even though Nick had never met Lionel personally.

In 2014, Ken raped John's wife again. He sent some of the images from the rapes to Lionel.

THE POST-RAPE MESSAGES
Dissatisfied with merely violating their wives, Ken and John would prolong the "experience" by chatting feverishly afterwards via texts about their encounters. In chats later retrieved by investigators, Ken told John that his wife was "always yours".

He said it would be "nice" if John "managed to knock" Ken's wife up. They shared plans to get their wives to be "sluts", raped and impregnated by other men.

In one excerpt from April 2015, John said: "Woman like (John's wife) and (Ken's wife), no matter how smart they think themselves are, eventually also kanna outsmart by her man. Hehe."

John also referred to his own wife in crude language, saying she was raped by multiple men.

"Bet both of them still thinking they are their husband's chaste and loyal wife."

There was a lull of two years after this – in 2015 and 2016, no rape was committed by the men in the group.

THE LIVE CAMS
In this same period, John installed an internet-linked closed-circuit television camera in his master bedroom.

He did this to livestream his sexual activities with his wife and images of her naked to whoever had the password. Those who watched include Ken, Lionel and another family friend.

John and Ken installed cameras in their bedrooms that would livestream their sex activities to others.

John researched concealed microphones, wanting to enhance these "live shows" with audio, but did not install any in the end.

Ken also put in a web camera in his master bedroom, which he similarly livestreamed to others including John and Lionel.

If John or Ken watched, they would record the acts on occasion, and commend each other on a "nice show" afterwards.

The depravity did not stop with them. It had spread, like an infection, outside of the main wife-sharing ring, with Lionel roping in his colleague, Patrick.

In the wee hours of Sep 1, 2017, Lionel drugged his wife with a sex enhancement drug while they were drinking alcohol to make her fall asleep.

Lionel then had sex with his wife, but she lost consciousness halfway. He then told Patrick to come over, while his children and maid were sleeping in another room.

However, Patrick was predisposed to erectile dysfunction and was unable to commit the rape. He molested Lionel's wife and tried to rape her, but the woman began stirring.

Caught in the act, Patrick fled, but Lionel's wife was furious and got both men to write letters confessing to what they had done.

After the lull of two years, the live cams were not enough for John again. He roped Nick into the perverse ring in 2017, meeting up with him at coffee shops to discuss their sick fantasies.

Between 2017 and 2018, John again drugged his wife when she was ill. Nick went over while John's children were asleep and raped her. They arranged for a second rape session soon after.

Nick kept the images John sent him of the sexual assault. One of the images included a caption John added: "Happy birthday ... I will always be knockout waiting in my bed for you ... your sexdoll, John's wife."

In 2018, John asked Matt if he could rape Matt's ex-wife, since Matt had raped John's wife.

THE EX-WIFE
They waited for National Day in 2018, when John's wife went overseas.

John invited Matt and Matt's ex-wife over to his home for what the men said was a networking meeting.

At his home, John offered Matt's ex-wife wine that was spiked with dormicum. She became drowsy and started slurring. Matt then propped her up and John raped her, while Matt took photos.

Aside from having his wife raped and humiliating her by broadcasting her nude images and their sexual activities to internet users, John also gave her underwear and clothes to Nick.

The illicit offences would have gone uncovered had it not been for John and Ken continuing to reminisce about their depraved acts, years after.

THE DISCOVERY
In the early hours of Jan 1, 2020, while John was sleeping, his wife noticed that his phone was playing a video.

She picked it up to turn it off but chanced upon a Skype chat with Ken. The chat contained explicit images of her, including one of her naked with a blindfold, and another of her unconscious.

She realised that John and Ken had been exchanging wives through the use of "drugs, charms and stimulants".

Shocked, the mother of four slapped her husband awake. John confessed.

Knowing that the gig was up, John deleted the incriminating chats from his phone. On his wife's insistence, he brought her to Ken's home where a confrontation ensued.

Ken admitted that he had raped John's wife while she was unconscious, and that he had also made his own wife unconscious so that John could rape her.

John's wife lodged a police report the next day. John and Ken were arrested a day later. Through digital storage media found on the men, the police identified the other accomplices.

In her victim impact statement, John's wife said she felt appeased at first when her husband apologised to her.

"At the start, I only thought that there was only one co-accused," she said.

Subsequently, when there were more and more accused being charged to court, only did I realise how bad this case was. I kept thinking about how cruel he was to do this to me.

She said she felt "so hurt, angry, disappointed and overwhelmed by the sense of betrayal" and thought she would be "better off dead" after the incident came to light.

As time went by, she said she began to feel numb about the whole case and chose not to feel anything.

Ken's wife said she felt like dying, but has tried to manage her emotions by not thinking about the incident at all.

Despite this, John's wife did not get a divorce. She spoke to his psychiatrist in his case for the defence, saying that John had made "frequent" requests to have sex with her every other day and seemed to be watching pornography whenever he was free.

She said John had sex with other women when she was pregnant with their first daughter, but described this as a one-time encounter.

She also said she had suspicions that John was sending videos of them having sex to others, and had once tried to let someone hear them have sex over his phone.

IN COURT
John, who was known online as CEJtz25, became referred to as CEJ in court papers prepared by the prosecution.

In March 2020, the first whiffs of the case came to the noses of reporters in court, when some of the men appeared in court to face their charges.

Because so much of the charge sheets were redacted, the reporters were left confused by who raped whom, and whose wife it was.

The sheer complexity and scale of it were revealed only when the men came to court to plead guilty.

The first was Patrick, the man with the most tenuous link to the saga, as he was drawn into it only through his colleague Lionel.

He pleaded guilty in January 2022 and was sentenced to three years' jail for attempted conspiracy to commit rape.

Months later in October 2022, four of the men were escorted by prison staff to the High Court, where they sat behind glass jostling for space with their hands in cuffs.

In a lengthy court hearing that spilled over into the late evening because of the sheer volume of facts that had to be gone through, each of the men confessed to their roles.

Ken, Lionel, Matt and Nick returned a month later and were sentenced after their defence lawyers put in pleas for them.

Lionel, who was the oldest, was the only one who did not receive caning due to his age. His lawyer said he now had a good relationship with his wife.

The prosecution was a three-woman strong team, led by seasoned sex crime prosecutor Gail Wong, who had put away criminals from upskirters to men who shared obscene materials on Sammyboy forum. In her sentencing submissions, Ms Wong emphatically said:

When a woman enters into marriage, she entrusts herself to her husband: She trusts that the man she sleeps beside will not harm her every night as she sleeps.

She trusts that in sickness, the father of her children will not poison her with drugs passed off as medicine, she trusts that her husband will keep private their most intimate sexual moments together.

In each of the court hearings, reporters heard whispers about what was to happen to John – he had first hired a set of lawyers and was supposedly set to plead guilty, but later was set for trial with a fresh set of lawyers.

However, his case was changed again to a criminal mention in the High Court, which usually refers to a guilty plea.

Reporters waited outside the courtroom for about one-and-a-half hours on the day he was supposed to plead guilty.

JOHN'S GUILTY PLEA
Auxiliary police officers kept the reporters outside, saying it was a chamber hearing. It turned out that John was submitting arguments to the judge on his own, because he was now self-represented.

Peeks through the glass window showed him standing up in the dock, reading to Justice See Kee Oon from stacks of paper he had with him. Throughout – and through the rest of the hearing – he had a pained, sorry expression on his face.

When the hearing started proper and reporters were allowed in, John avoided looking anyone in the eye.

His mitigation was akin to grasping at straws – he tendered letters from his daughters which were not read out, and one from his mother, a woman in her 60s.

She wrote that her son was filial and a loving, good and responsible father who always took his wife and four daughters out.

John blamed his wife for his actions – claiming she had been unfaithful to him twice, that they hurt each other mutually, talking about how his repressed anger and jealousy had built up inside him until he vented them in the form of the offences.

He tried unsuccessfully to ask the judge to have him sent for more mental assessments. Psychiatrists had already assessed him and found that he was sound.

The judge tossed out the report of the one psychiatrist who diagnosed John with sex addiction. This, along with his purported low self-esteem and self-doubt about his masculinity, contributed to his actions, the psychiatrist claimed.

Justice See found the report neither reliable nor relevant. Even if John's diagnosis was proper, he was able to work, judge, plan and make decisions.

He said:

The prosecution's reply puts it well – 'no mitigating weight can or should be given to a rapist who claims he is addicted to sex'.
After John was sentenced to 29 years' jail and the maximum 24 strokes of the cane, Justice See asked him if he had anything to say.

John stood crestfallen and stuttered for a bit before finally mumbling: "No."

Oliver remains the last key in the puzzle. He is set to claim trial, and little is known about his full involvement because of that.

[superstiffy]

aiyah smlj thing in the newspaper also got sbf taiji... those people that think sbf is dirty or got no morals also like to camp here and look see look see....

u all still bother to read news ah? come here read adult discussion about sex better la.. our sg system is kan jialat... but still got 60% enjoy kenna fuck... :D

[Suharto]

Bapak posted this previously in 2022

how do they know they were drugged? Who sold them the drug? Did the police nab the seller? Did he say he sold to them, all answers point to no

Shadow_warrior accused bapak of the below

Lots of wild claims and statements

Today after 6 months CNA confirmed the below


CNA breaks down what exactly happened in the wife-sharing rapes that judges have called "one of the most astonishing and atrocious cases of sexual assault" in Singapore.

John procured his own drugs from an unknown seller in Geylang and drew from this stash over several incidents.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/wife-sharing-rape-cases-drugs-sex-network-victims-3471896


Bapak is the best lawyer around, from statements bapak already know polisi in singapura main tipu :D

Goverment in singapore is using media to do damage control and monitoring this thread and now the government CNA media admits finally, they only guessing that these women were drugged as there is no seller or toxicology report.

This way they might as well say the chicken rice seller also raped them as they were suspect his chicken rice was drugged too, since no need evidence for being drugged like that anyone can be blamed :D

This also means now the confession signed by the accused is in jeopardy to be thrown out on appeal :D

Judge should be impeached and removed from the bench for his stupidity, the judge was derelict in his duty for not asking these questions in court :p

[Suharto]

u all still bother to read news ah?

Have to keep our lives entertained with propaganda from the singapore government :D

[Heretohelp]

7 men, 1 depraved sex network: Unravelling the full story behind the wife-sharing drug rapes

CNA breaks down what exactly happened in the wife-sharing rapes that judges have called "one of the most astonishing and atrocious cases of sexual assault" in Singapore.


Previously posted on 31 Oct 2022

https://www.sammyboyforum.com/showpost.php?p=21783586&postcount=1

[cavemao]

this case has cast an unnecessary spotlight on samsters :(

[bignehneh]

Any idiot that read all the info know this is rape. Machiam organised by a very “well oiled”. Our tao gao (ex CID) all writing fiction. Lol

[We5tlife]

[SIZE="4"][COLOR="Blue"]7 men, 1 depraved sex network: Unravelling the full story behind the wife-sharing drug rapes

CNA breaks down what exactly happened in the wife-sharing rapes

OMG :eek:
this one also got sbf eh tai ji :eek:

[BigDaddyJohnson]

Any idiot that read all the info know this is rape

How so? Because the authorities said so? Just like they arrested all their political opponents in in 70s/80s by fabricating that they were communist when they were not? Or just because the the AGC said parti liyani is guilty but the dpp fabricate the evidence? How many times the appeals court has struck down these cases already, that the high court and law minister has to come out to ask the lawyers and police to have integrity

What about the doctor who was accused of rape by 2 witnesses and now set free because the CCTV show the witnesses were not even there in the first place. So what is the police doing?


organised by a very “well oiled”.
Our tao gao (ex CID) all writing fiction. Lol

Did not what he said turned out true eventually? Even that indo troll suharto also turned out right, what does this say?

It says that do know what they are talking about else their hunches would not have turned out true plus if you have friends in the police, you know he is telling the truth from experience already, his details are very in depth, no one can know such procedures unless they are or were a member of the CID


THE DRUGS
Between 2010 and 2011, John's wife told him that she was not feeling well. This sparked a devious act from John – the first of many that were to come, that formed his modus operandi. He pretended to give her medication but handed her a sedative instead.


This part makes no sense, anyone that has taken any medicine in their life, (like my myself for blood pressure), all pills are stamped with the manufacturer name and medicine weight/type. She did not see what he was handing to her? She just swallowed it? If he hands her rat poison, she will swallow it too? The whole reason why those pills are stamped is to prevent misdiagnose and people from eating wrongly.

And the judge entertain this story of what she ate 12 years ago?

Do the dpp and judge even remember what they ate for lunch 1 year ago? If not how can this lady remember what she ate 12 years ago? Does the judge not find this statement super retarded? Or is he a retard himself?

I personally cannot even remember what i ate for lunch last week let alone 12 years ago

John gave his wife a sedative on the pretext of giving her medicine. The sedative used was dormicum sleeping pills.


They now said the pill used is is dormicum, it is sold under the name midazolam. This is what the manufacturer says about it

[
The drug does not cause an individual to become unconscious

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midazolam
]

So how in the world did they become unconscious when the manufacturer of the pills themselves said, it does not make one unconscious.

Is the judge and dpp stupid? The fact that the manufacturer already said the drug does not make one unconscious then how they could have raped them while they were still conscious?

Caught in the act, Patrick fled, but Lionel's wife was furious and got both men to write letters confessing to what they had done.


How is that even legal? There is no way to verify that they even wrote those letters. It could have been forged by so many ways

His lawyer said he now had a good relationship with his wife

After they claimed that he had his wife raped, she is now okay?? Huh? This is absurd on so many levels if its true

She realised that John and Ken had been exchanging wives through the use of "drugs, charms and stimulants".


Charms?? They go to bomoh is it? Is the dpp and judge fully retarded is it?

The videos were later disseminated and found in Nick's possession, even though Nick had never met Lionel personally.


If they never met each other then how did they rape each other's wife? Via telekinetic powers?

Also if they did not meet each other, how did their respective wife's ended up with each other? The only way this could happen if the women went there themselves. This simply seems like a swinging session gone wrong than rape.

The prosecution was a three-woman strong team, led by seasoned sex crime prosecutor Gail Wong, who had put away criminals from upskirters to men who shared obscene materials on Sammyboy forum

Does the retard Gail wong dpp realize most of the pictures posted in this forum are just from the internet? Why not go after the webmasters themselves? Oh wait she can't because the courts in those countries will throw the case out and she will get disbarred in those jurisdictions

From the CNA article, you can clearly see that the judge and dpp have clearly lost their collective minds, i am starting to think that this no longer rape already but a swinging session gone wrong

What a standard for a dpp and judge, i will not even hire them as security guards for their sheer stupidity that they showed today

The singapore court system is starting to look like a kangaroo court

[bignehneh]

The medication

(1) works by inducing sleepiness, decreasing anxiety, and causing a loss of ability to create new memories

(2) potentially looks like any standard antihistamine.

I feel this is like a super structured plan to rape wives. If those guys are innocent

Quite strange these ppl got no money to hire top lawyers to defend them? They’re 20+ years of freedom only worth hiring kajiang puteh lawyers? A BD Director one year easily earn $150k so 20 years in jail is loss income of $3m. Not enough to hire lawyer?

[TheIdesOfMarch]

The medication

(1) works by inducing sleepiness, decreasing anxiety, and causing a loss of ability to create new memories

(2) potentially looks like any standard antihistamine.

I feel this is like a super structured plan to rape wives. If those guys are innocent

Quite strange these ppl got no money to hire top lawyers to defend them? They’re 20+ years of freedom only worth hiring kajiang puteh lawyers? A BD Director one year easily earn $150k so 20 years in jail is loss income of $3m. Not enough to hire lawyer?

Got money doesn't always mean can hire the best lawyers. Criminal defence lawyers in SG will pick and choose their clients. To them the potential money is secondary to the public scrutiny and negative criticism they will face in defending men accused of such crimes, as well as their concern that if they lose it will affect their win/loss ratio.

We no longer have a Subhas Anandan in SG law scene now. He alongside M Ravi are probably the only two lawyers in SG who genuinely believed that even a murderer deserves a fair trial and someone fighting their corner. Don't underestimate the sharp elbows AGC and SLS can throw out under the table to "discourage" lawyers from taking up certain cases for certain individuals they want to be dead meat.

Once again, if I'm wrong let the legal bros here correct me.

[AlejandroSosa]

The medication
(1) works by inducing sleepiness


Correct, it induces sleepiness not unconsciousness (this is according to the manufacturer), which simply means that they are aware of their surroundings still, so how can they then be raped? The specifications of the manufacturer does not tally with the women accounts, that itself should have been a red flag for the presiding judge

I feel this is like a super structured plan to rape wives

I do not believe, seems that the story has too many loose ends and holes, seems that the dpp just wants to close the case not bothering whether the person is really guilty or not simply shows as a dpp she is very unethical

Quite strange these ppl got no money to hire top lawyers to defend them? They’re 20+ years of freedom only worth hiring kajiang puteh lawyers? A BD Director one year easily earn $150k

You think the company will keep you after such accusations? Also he could just be a BD in an SME not MNC, usually SME BD, earn much lesser like around S$5K/mth. Also such criminal lawyers are not cheap, it can cost a minimum S$35K and above. But that is only 1 person that is a BD, other are normal folks like food delivery only, they do not have the financial power to fight any accusations, so they are resigned to their fates sometimes. Even QC minimum is S$100K and above. Lawyers are very expensive in singapore

Don't underestimate the sharp elbows AGC and SLS can throw out under the table to "discourage" lawyers from taking up certain cases for certain individuals they want to be dead meat.


Correct when i was in singapore as a criminal lawyer, i was always "discouraged" to not fight. They even lodge complains against me to the law society, but i know the law society people too and they supported my cause. These complains are simply because i dare to question the AGC narrative. I have been harassed by the police and AGC countless times just because they do not approve me of defending certain people.

Remember the underage scandal here is SBF in which subhas defended the people in court? His clients got only 1/2 mths behind bars, he had managed to dig up that she was using her sister's identity card at the hotel, basically saying that the people had no idea she was using another person's IC and that the hotel themselves did not even know, how can the rest of them even know. Mr Subhas described the girl as a HARDCORE prostitute who deserves no protection from the law. Problem is nowadays in singapore they even changed the rape laws where in court you cannot discuss the woman's previous transgressions (see below)

[
Evidence Act was amended in 2018 and rules were put in place to prevent the Defence from asking alleged victims of sexual offences about their physical appearance or sexual behaviour (which is unrelated to the charge), without the Court’s permission.

https://www.mlaw.gov.sg/news/parliamentary-speeches/written-answer-by-minister-for-law-mr-k-shanmugam-to-pq-on-training-on-sexual-offences-for-judicial-officials/
]

The above is important, because if a woman constantly is very promiscuous and then suddenly when she decides she can just cry rape, but in court in singapore we now cannot discuss it even if she was an FL in the past. This is simply making the fact that any woman can just cry rape when it may not be true or she wants to use it as leverage against you.

Singapore has the evidence act of 1893, those who want to know how evidence is argued in singapore court can browse through it online.

There was once the AGC had a plea deal for one of my client, i advised him to reject the plea deal, the AGC then threatened me, said i was dishonest to my client and etc, they said they will make sure i regret my decision. I simply told the AGC to go screw themselves politely. End of the day, my client got off with only probation, the AGC was giving a plea deal of 5 years instead, AGC was super pissed at me, i have made the AGC look like fools many times in court and have built a reputation as such for myself, but its very tough to be a criminal lawyer in singapore because of the harassment of government officials from the AGC on lawyers defending their clients, i am really glad that i left for australia, much better legal system and police standards over here in australia.

[Hurricane88]

https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/former-wahbanana-actor-trial-raping-woman-he-met-tinder-2172221?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Nothing mentioned sbf...also not related to this topic...think all the so called "lawyers" feel free to comment here...:)

[TheIdesOfMarch]

https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/former-wahbanana-actor-trial-raping-woman-he-met-tinder-2172221?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Nothing mentioned sbf...also not related to this topic...think all the so called "lawyers" feel free to comment here...:)

Start a new thread for this la if you want.

[AhFangWoGanNi]

Local courts of koalas, tasmanian devils and kang........ :D :D

[bignehneh]

Correct, it induces sleepiness not unconsciousness (this is according to the manufacturer), which simply means that they are aware of their surroundings still, so how can they then be raped? The specifications of the manufacturer does not tally with the women accounts, that itself should have been a red flag for the presiding judge



I do not believe, seems that the story has too many loose ends and holes, seems that the dpp just wants to close the case not bothering whether the person is really guilty or not simply shows as a dpp she is very unethical



You think the company will keep you after such accusations? Also he could just be a BD in an SME not MNC, usually SME BD, earn much lesser like around S$5K/mth. Also such criminal lawyers are not cheap, it can cost a minimum S$35K and above. But that is only 1 person that is a BD, other are normal folks like food delivery only, they do not have the financial power to fight any accusations, so they are resigned to their fates sometimes. Even QC minimum is S$100K and above. Lawyers are very expensive in singapore



Correct when i was in singapore as a criminal lawyer, i was always "discouraged" to not fight. They even lodge complains against me to the law society, but i know the law society people too and they supported my cause. These complains are simply because i dare to question the AGC narrative. I have been harassed by the police and AGC countless times just because they do not approve me of defending certain people.

Remember the underage scandal here is SBF in which subhas defended the people in court? His clients got only 1/2 mths behind bars, he had managed to dig up that she was using her sister's identity card at the hotel, basically saying that the people had no idea she was using another person's IC and that the hotel themselves did not even know, how can the rest of them even know. Mr Subhas described the girl as a HARDCORE prostitute who deserves no protection from the law. Problem is nowadays in singapore they even changed the rape laws where in court you cannot discuss the woman's previous transgressions (see below)

[
Evidence Act was amended in 2018 and rules were put in place to prevent the Defence from asking alleged victims of sexual offences about their physical appearance or sexual behaviour (which is unrelated to the charge), without the Court’s permission.

https://www.mlaw.gov.sg/news/parliamentary-speeches/written-answer-by-minister-for-law-mr-k-shanmugam-to-pq-on-training-on-sexual-offences-for-judicial-officials/
]

The above is important, because if a woman constantly is very promiscuous and then suddenly when she decides she can just cry rape, but in court in singapore we now cannot discuss it even if she was an FL in the past. This is simply making the fact that any woman can just cry rape when it may not be true or she wants to use it as leverage against you.

Singapore has the evidence act of 1893, those who want to know how evidence is argued in singapore court can browse through it online.

There was once the AGC had a plea deal for one of my client, i advised him to reject the plea deal, the AGC then threatened me, said i was dishonest to my client and etc, they said they will make sure i regret my decision. I simply told the AGC to go screw themselves politely. End of the day, my client got off with only probation, the AGC was giving a plea deal of 5 years instead, AGC was super pissed at me, i have made the AGC look like fools many times in court and have built a reputation as such for myself, but its very tough to be a criminal lawyer in singapore because of the harassment of government officials from the AGC on lawyers defending their clients, i am really glad that i left for australia, much better legal system and police standards over here in australia.

Bro

You should come back la. Defend those bro like Subhas. He is going already so no one can defend us if any bro kana

[TheIdesOfMarch]

Bro

You should come back la. Defend those bro like Subhas. He is going already so no one can defend us if any bro kana

https://p1-tt-ipv6.byteimg.com/origin/pgc-image/2040480098fb470888b776e9c5269d02.jpg

[Suharto]

New update from news in singapura daripada indonesia :D

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On July 23, 2021, an article appeared in the Tokyo-based English-language weekly Nikkei Asia Review, calling attention to the Singapore government's handling of so-called KTV lounges, alleging that decades of institutional failures in dealing with what the article called "organized crime cartels” were running what amounted to illegal brothels, which were responsible for the widespread spread of Covid-19 among the lounges’ patrons.

The result was astonishing. The story got an unheard-of 1.5 million hits from amid Singapore’s 5 million-odd population virtually from the moment it was uploaded, and far more than Nikkei had ever scored on a Singapore story, by a factor of thousands. As most Singaporeans know, the KTV lounges have been an embarrassment to strait-laced Singapore for decades, widely regarded as an unregulated hotbed not only for the coronavirus but as places where prostitution flourishes openly as authorities have long looked the other way.

The article appears to have generated absolute fury at the very top of the Singapore government, particularly in the office of law minister K Shanmugam. Singapore's answer to the story, which was written by a 28-year-old security analyst named Andy Wong Ming Jun, wasn't long in coming. Indignant articles appeared calling the Nikkei article “full of inaccuracies” and justifying the government’s control over the lounges and pointing out, among other things, that “Singapore has laws against organized crime, money laundering, and trafficking-in-persons” that keep the lounges squeaky clean.

The government apparently didn’t turn to the courts for defamation, as usual when deeply offended although officials in Singapore’s Tokyo embassy relayed a threat to throw Nikkei's entire business operations out of the country, reliable sources say, not just Nikkei Asian Review.

Wong is now in the UK, writing his master’s thesis and counting his scars, and unlikely to ever return to the city of his birth absent a political revolution. In the aftermath of the publication of the article in Nikkei Asia Review, he says, his life has been taken apart in stunning fashion, to the point where his professional and social life in Singapore have been ruined and he's been forced into exile.

According to his account, as well as news reports and court records made available to Asia Sentinel, Singapore mounted an attack on him that can only be described as unprecedented. It extended even to the consulting firm boss he was working for, who will remain unnamed, but who was blackballed from Singapore by his industry and political contacts, who “implied because they questioned his judgment in hiring a Singaporean who turned out to be a political critic.” The owner of the firm was forced by circumstances to close his consultancy and leave Singapore.

Three days after the article appeared, Wong and three others were arrested and charged in court with possessing or transmitting obscene materials through a Telegram chat group in an affair that had occurred 20 months before and seemingly gone dormant. Wong has repeatedly been identified as a ringleader of the group in state media reports and social media chatter as allegedly possessing vast amounts of porn on his iPhone and on his computer although in court documents he was identified as only a member of the chat group, which had 25,000 members.

Never mind that according to the Straits Times, 90 percent of teen boys and 47 percent of teen girls in a survey acknowledged viewing pornography. (Downloading such materials, however, is an offense.)

“I was just a normal Singapore citizen who had multiple career tracks spanning corporate services, port logistics, analyst work, and freelance journalism,” Wong wrote in a description of his ordeal which he emailed to Asia Sentinel. “Up till July 2021 I was also gainfully employed in business/political risk advisory in Singapore under a British boss, from which I've since had my ties severed due to significant compromising and blowback from my ongoing political persecution.”

Andy Wong is in company with victims of Singaporean government vindictiveness going back to four decades to the days when opposition leader Joshua B Jeyaretnam was persecuted falsely for irregularities in his party’s financial books. More recently the targets of government wrath have included citizen journalists Terry Xu and Ai Takagi, critic Roy Ngerng, cartoonist Leslie Chew, blogger Alex Au and many opposition politicians who have ended up in court facing charges and crippling fines after they called attention to alleged shortcomings in the Lion Republic.

Human rights lawyer M. Ravi was recently suspended from practice for five years for criticizing government vindictiveness against one of his clients who was on death row. He had previously also represented Alan Shadrake, who was jailed for more than five weeks in 2010 for his criticism of the death penalty in Singapore with his book Once A Jolly Hangman.

This process was described earlier at length in a 2017 Human Rights Watch report titled “Kill the Chicken to Scare the Monkeys: Suppression of Free Expression and Assembly in Singapore, which said that “those who criticize the government or the judiciary, or publicly discuss race and religion, frequently find themselves facing criminal investigations and charges, or civil defamation suits and crippling damages. Peaceful public demonstrations and other assemblies are severely limited, and failure to comply with detailed restrictions on what can be said and who can participate in public gatherings frequently results in police investigations and the threat of criminal charges.”

More recently, just last week Amnesty International charged that officials are “continuing to silence human rights defenders and other critics ahead of upcoming elections, subjecting “well-known activists and critics of the government to further investigation and harassment…solely for freely expressing their views and opinions.” The prime minister Lee Hsien Loong’s ’s own brother Lee Hsien Yang and his wife, Lee Suet Fern, have been forced to leave Singapore under threat of government action after warring with Hsien Loong, as Amnesty International reported.

Wong acknowledged in his correspondence with Asia Sentinel his membership of Telegram groups directly affiliated with an online adult forum as an offshoot of his personal alternative lifestyle in the local adult community. Describing each group as numbering as many as 25,000 members in each, they ranged from general chat to people sharing adult content through Telegram/Onlyfans when he was “single and footloose.” He stated emphatically that all three groups did not deal in “illegal leaked nudes” and that strict rules had been put in place to deter such sharing or discussions in them, owing to past high-profile cases such as the “Nasi Lemak” group in October 2019.

In November of 2019, he says, police raided his home and those of three others, apparently acting on a police report from an unnamed young woman angered about their alleged organized possession and sale of “illegal nude pictures.” While the other three were administrators of these groups, he says he was just a member along with 25,000 others. His passport and electronic devices were impounded and he was bailed for S$5,000.

Things went very quiet, he says, with no progress, and subsequent devolution of the initial accusations of selling illegal pornography or being a group administrator into simple possession by the time the first interview had ended. As a direct result of his arrest and ongoing investigations, he missed work and was later forced to resign from his position as a corporate secretary.

Then Covid happened. Without a job, unable to leave Singapore because of his impounded passport, he took other jobs such as working in port logistics (for which he was featured as a positive example by Singapore state media) and freelance defense writing. He says he established a strong network with thinktank heads, industry professionals, and people within the local political establishment.

In July 2021, he wrote the offending personal post about the Singapore government's handling of the pandemic on his LinkedIn social media platform, gaining traction among local expatriates. An acquaintance and think tank associate forwarded it to Nikkei Asia Review, whose editor then asked him for permission to modify it for publication.

The article elicited a furious response in local mainstream media and even in Parliament. Nikkei was threatened with the use of Singapore’s “Protection from Online Falsehoods and Manipulation Act,” commonly abbreviated as POFMA and known colloquially as the Fake News Law, and threatened with being kicked out of the country altogether. The publication stuck by the article, as Asia Sentinel has verified.

“So, what do you do when you can’t take down a message online? You destroy the person who said it. You shoot the messenger with any convenient weaponized leverage within reach That's what happened to me,” Wong said. “An immediate campaign of character assassination was initiated against me by Singaporean state media, calling my article full of falsehoods and inaccuracies. Shanmugam even went on record in the news and televised parliamentary sessions denouncing me and calling me out as a fraud with an axe to grind against the government.”

This was a sitting law minister actively interfering with public comments on an open case, despite also stating in a 2016 Law Bill that “Persons in court cases should not face prejudgment by the media or by the public, in a way which whips up sentiment and creates a real risk of interfering with their trials.”

The wheels of justice spun fast. Barely a weekend after the publication of the offending Nikkei article, the Singapore Police acted on Wong’s dormant porn possession charges. He and the three other unrelated suspects were ordered to Tanglin Division police headquarters on July 26 – three days after publication.

Two days later on July 28 he was in court to officially acknowledge charges and start the court process, more than 20 months after his initial arrest. The case had been in limbo for so long that the police had to assign a new investigating officer because the original one had been reassigned elsewhere.

Wong ended up facing a total of 11 charges relating to possession of pornography, of which the most serious three were officially proceeded on to exact the highest possible punishment, he says. There was no mention of any aggravating factors such as “illegal nudes,” nor of linkages of his private pornography possession with his membership of the Telegram groups.

Although the original charges in the press circular put out by the police didn't contain any names of the four, their names were added in and plastered all over the police news web. Wong says state media character attacks increased as he attended court to acknowledge the possession charges.

“This concerted character assassination campaign resulted in a trial by trial by media and public opinion before a trial by law in a court to defend and address my charges,” he told Asia Sentinel. “This was the ultimate intent of the government in weaponizing my dormant criminal investigation case to discredit and destroy my life, even if it was utterly irrelevant and unlinked to my article.”

He says that as a direct result, he was subjected to targeted harassment and personal attacks on various local social media forums, he says, with some disclosing his publicly-available court dates in case potential troublemakers wished to turn up and harass him.

“The whole country and media reports painted me as some sort of ringleader running a Telegram group involved in transmitting and selling illegally leaked nudes and general porn.” But he didn’t and hadn’t. While there were public claims and repeated media reports that he had possessed more than 2,000 videos and 1,400 photos on his smartphone, there were only 119 videos on his impounded laptop.

His three co-accused were sentenced in December 2021 and the following month, leaving him to twist in the wind amid continuing social media furor and press reports.

In fact, in the end, the attorney general said the office had no intention of adding anything about transmission to possession of porn charges, and they would only be asking for a fine and no prison time. But, he says “this didn’t stop them from attempting to put me behind bars, for after the three other individuals linked to my case were sentenced to jail time, the deputy prosecutor was still communicating to my lawyer stating that his superiors had ordered “one final look” at my case to see if there was any justification to put me in prison.”

When his lawyer tried to raise this point in his defense statement, the deputy public prosecutor sought a hearing against the lawyer to discredit him in the eyes of the judge. His request was ultimately denied

He says the government set out to “weaponize my ‘porn possession’ charges although there were no links to any of the Telegram groups he was a member of, as attested to by the public prosecutor’s own statement of fact. Nonetheless, prosecutors asked for a "double fine" for his two video possession charges, with a maximum fine S$20,000 each. With another S$2,500 charge for possessing porn pictures on his phone for a total of S$42,500.

“I have been effectively publicly and professionally silenced and societally outcasted in Singapore,” he says. “I was robbed of any chance to defend myself in the open and say whatever the media and Shanmugam had reported about me was false and wrong. This was in large part due to obfuscation and stonewalling by the police and attorney general’s chambers towards my lawyer’s protestations as to who was responsible for the erroneous press circular put out about my case. As long as it was not changed, state media could then have their smokescreen to claim objective factual reportage of my case even before final sentencing.”

His lawyer, he says, “strongly advised me not to defend myself in public about my Nikkei article or my case till we have more legal clarity out of concerns about further state aggravation and trial by media over my unrelated article muddying my legal case and we had to somehow play dumb and pretend that my case is going to be tried and handled in a vacuum independent of external circumstances and political interference. Not that it worked in the end.”

Shortly before Wong was convicted and sentenced, Singaporean state media released a documentary indirectly corroborating and confirming his Nikkei Asia Review article on YouTube titled “Sing City: What Drives Singapore's Underground KTV Industry?”

Source: https://www.asiasentinel.com/p/singapore-kills-chicken-scare-monkeys

[Suharto]

Kerajaan Singapura issue POFMA, because rahsia kerajaan singapura bocor :eek:
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SINGAPORE: A correction direction under the Protection from Online Falsehoods and Manipulation Act (POFMA) has been issued to online publication Asia Sentinel, over statements made on the aftermath of an opinion piece by Andy Wong Min Jun in Nikkei Asia.

Under the POFMA order, California-registered Asia Sentinel is required to carry a correction notice alongside a May 24 article titled Singapore kills a Chicken to Scare the Monkeys, said the Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) in a press release on Friday (May 26).


The article was written by editor John Berthelsen, who interviewed Wong, the author of a 2021 commentary criticising Singapore's handling of KTV lounges amid the COVID-19 pandemic.

Berthelsen wrote that Wong had been "forced into exile" after, and drew parallels between his situation and that of others like lawyer M Ravi and Lee Hsien Yang, the brother of Singapore's Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong.

MHA on Friday said that Asia Sentinel's article contained several falsehoods.

These include claiming that Mr Ravi was suspended from practising law for five years because he had criticised the Singapore government, and that Mr Lee Hsien Yang and his wife Mrs Lee Suet Fern were forced to leave Singapore because government action was threatened against them for "warring" with Mr Lee Hsien Loong.

Another false statement was that the Singapore government, in the aftermath of Wong's piece, had threatened to end Nikkei's business operations in the country, said MHA.


The ministry reiterated that Wong's Nikkei article contained "many factual inaccuracies".

"Nikkei Asia published the Ministry of Home Affairs’ response as a letter to the editor (Singapore says commentary on KTV outbreak is full of inaccuracies) on July 29, 2021. At no point did the Singapore government threaten to end Nikkei’s operations in Singapore," it said in the press release.


'Full of inaccuracies': MHA rebuts Nikkei Asia article criticising Government's handling of KTVs amid COVID-19

Shanmugam questions motive of Nikkei Asia writer who criticised Government handling of KTVs

Author of Nikkei Asia article about KTV COVID-19 cluster fined for having obscene videos, photos
On Mr Ravi's suspension, which was applied in March, MHA said this was because the Court of Three Judges had found that his various allegations against the Attorney-General, Deputy Attorney-General, prosecutors and the Law Society, had "recklessly and baselessly undermined" the pillars of Singapore’s legal system.

On Mr Lee Hsien Yang and his wife, the ministry said the pair left Singapore after the police engaged them for an investigation.

They had declined to attend a police interview in July 2022 relating to lying in judicial proceedings about the late Mr Lee Kuan Yew's will.


This police investigation has nothing to do with “warring with Lee Hsien Loong”, said MHA.

A check by CNA showed that as of 11.30pm on Friday, Asia Sentinel had yet to put up a correction notice.

FINED OVER OBSCENE MATERIAL

Wong's Nikkei piece in 2021 drew a point-by-point rebuttal from MHA then, with Home Affairs Minister K Shanmugam later weighing in days later in a Facebook post and calling it "little more than a work of fiction".

The minister added that it contained "several falsehoods" about the government's approach towards KTV operations and immigration policies.

Mr Shanmugam also then mentioned that Wong was "ironically" charged for possessing obscene material, and questioned if the criminal investigation against him was the reason for his diatribe based on falsehoods.


In April last year, Wong was fined S$42,000 for possessing more than 4,200 obscene videos and photos.

He was a member of a Telegram chat group linked to Sammy Boy Forum, a sexually explicit local forum. Investigations against him and others started in November 2019.

Four members of that group, including Wong, were charged and sentenced for possessing obscene material.

Source: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/pofma-asia-sentinel-mha-shanmugam-ktv-andy-wong-lee-hsien-yang-m-ravi-nikkei-3517651

This forum is famous one again :D

[Suharto]

Quotes from our most esteem forumer

Problem is you have the police in singapore making up alot of false stories.

Abit on my background, i graduated from NUS and am called to the bar in singapore and am a senior partner in a law practice here, although i have now migrated to australia, but in the past i used to practice law in singapore.

There have also been instances where i suspect the police might be in the pocket of rival syndicate members because it seems weird to me why certain syndicate members are raided constantly while others can continue their illicit businesses with impunity, i even know of a police man in singapore where he says to me he cannot even go to holiday in JB, thailand or indonesia as "rivals" will take him out there, i asked him what he meant? He said sometimes certain policemen were part of the cliques themselves. Now this is not uncommon and there have a few of such cases as well where members of the police were gang members themselves (see news articles below)

What he says matches what the Asian Sentinel article that is posted on May 24 said


an article appeared in the Tokyo-based English-language weekly Nikkei Asia Review, calling attention to the Singapore government's handling of so-called KTV lounges, alleging that decades of institutional failures in dealing with what the article called "organized crime cartels” were running what amounted to illegal brothels, which were responsible for the widespread spread of Covid-19 among the lounges’ patrons.

Source: https://www.asiasentinel.com/p/singapore-kills-chicken-scare-monkeys

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Bapak now want to ask siapa polisi yang makan tak cukup :D

[Hurricane88]

Source: https://www.asiasentinel.com/p/singapore-kills-chicken-scare-monkeys


Not sure if you can share news before POFMA issued...then I think you are sharing something new...also not sure this is the correct thread...:)

[Suharto]

Not sure if you can share news before POFMA issued

Bapak already share the POFMA statement from kerajaan singapura at the below link. Although bapak read the POFMA statement it sounds like storytelling by kerajaan singapura, but bapak has posted it with links on post 150 so people can laugh at them :D

[
Bullshit :D POFMA statement from Kerajaan singapura

https://sbf.net.nz/showpost.php?p=22363065&postcount=150
]

I think you are sharing something new...also not sure this is the correct thread

Bapak also created a separate thread for this particular topic, thread link is below, please feel free to add any comments you like :D

https://sbf.net.nz/showthread.php?t=940357